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Re: [lojban] [lojban-announcements] Essay on the future of Lojban, with a simple poll for the community.



One can imagine certain sensible rules of thumb applying, such as "If a given improvement would result in nontrivial amounts of relearning, then it is appropriate for Logban3 but not for Lojban". (Better change that to "If a given improvement would result in nontrivial amounts of relearning, then it is appropriate for Logban3 but not for Lojban, *unless it is a fix for something that is broken*" -- I'm thinking of the pre-xorlo gadri system, the extraordinarily intense attempts to fix which led to the establishment of the BPFK and its completely irreconcilable various goals. People did invest considerable effort in learning a broken gadri system.)

--And.

Robin Lee Powell, On 07/04/2010 21:59:
I'm proposing setting a group of experienced Lojbanists with the
task of making these sorts of decisions; if you're worried, join up
and help.

As far as I'm aware, no-one is proposing the sorts of things you're
worried about.

-Robin

On Wed, Apr 07, 2010 at 04:30:25PM -0400, Luke Bergen wrote:
Just to clarify, we're not talking about huge re-constructional
changes here are we?  We're talking about things like xorlo and
dotside.  If I have to re-learn the gismu that I know now and
re-understand a new tense system, I would change my vote.  But as
I suspect that what RLPowell is talking about is nothing so
drastic as all that, I'm ok with change.

On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 4:22 PM, Arnt Richard Johansen
<arj@nvg.org> wrote:

On Mon, Apr 05, 2010 at 02:02:25PM -0700, Robin Lee Powell wrote:
  I would like Lojban to remain as close as it possibly can to its
  current state, regardless of whether I or a group of experienced
  Lojbanists see that improvements could be made.

Agree or disagree?
I used to believe that the most important thing for the regular user and
learner of Lojban was that the language should not change from under their
feet, so that the effort spent learning it would not go to waste.

But the responses I've seen to this poll from beginners and old-timers
alike have convinced me that, if this was the prevailing opinion fifteen
years ago, it is certainly not the prevailing opinion now.

It does give me pause that the LLG now appears to be on the course to
breaking the promise it made in CLL in 1997: “You can learn the language
described here with assurance that (unlike previous versions of Lojban and
Loglan, as well as most other artificial languages) it will not be subject
to further fiddling by language-meisters.” But, since the community does not
seem to care that much about stability, maybe that does not after all
represent a fatal blow to the LLG's credibility?

In any case, from now on I will stop arguing for conservatism on behalf of
a silent majority that turns out to nothing but a product of confirmation
bias and wishful thinking.

(I may still protest if the BPFK tries to effect a change that I,
personally, find too difficult to learn, but I don't expect such objections
to carry much force.)

--
Arnt Richard Johansen                                http://arj.nvg.org/
The names of a species, empire, language, homeworld, homestar and so
on will all be self-evidently related; Ogrons come from Ogros,
Arisians come from Arisia, Arcturans come from Arcturus, and Humans no
doubt come from Humus. --Justin B. Rye in A Primer In SF Xenolinguistics

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