El 09/04/2010 04:45 p.m., Bob LeChevalier escribió:
> Jonathan Jones wrote:
>> 1) Having gismu for some cultures and not others is biased, and
>> therefore violates the "culturally neutral" stance of Lojban.
>
> Only in the same sense that basing the gismu-making process on only 6 of
> the 12 most-spoken languages is culturally-biased, because it excludes
> all the rest.
This is not that accurate, since lojban doesn't sound like any of those.
However, I don't think a guaraní speaker would be hurt by that; but not
having a gismu for Paraguay (and having one for argentina).
>
> If one thinks only about gismu, then perhaps it is. If one considers
> fu'ivla made from the name of the language/culture IN the language, then
> we've more than neutralized that bias.
Making fu'ivla like that would be the best; I've searched for a list
with the languages names as said by natives, but I failed. That's why I
thought of "ISO generated" as the best possible solution.
>
> Gismu are shorter than fu'ivla, reflecting a presumption under Zipf's
> law of higher usage frequency, and references by speakers to their own
> language is a high frequency concept, so giving shorter words to
> more-spoken languages is one form of cultural-neutrality.
>
This is a good argument. However, it doesn't work for many many people
from the other countries.
>> The only
>> acceptable solution to this is to either have a word for *all*
>> cultures, or to not have a word for *any* of them.
>
> We decided otherwise.
This is not a good argument...
>
>> 2) The cultural gismu basically have too many meanings. For example,
>> {merko} means "x1 pertains to USA/American culture/nationality/dialect
>> in aspect x2". The solution to this is to
>
> ... make lujvo based on them. And in fu'ivla space, make culture words
> using the experimental space that allows fu'ivla to be made into rafsi
> and combined with the gismu used with the cultural gismu to make lujvo.
>
> lojbab
In this discussion, I've seen people who are against the cultural gismu,
people who don't care about it, and conservatives that don't want to
change a thing. But, besides what I marked IMO as a good argument, I
haven't read much of those.
I understand if there are people that won't like this change, but I
think others that, like myself, don't like the cultural gismu, won't use
them; we'll create fu'ivla, and encourage peers to use it.
mu'o mi'e .leos.
--
My lojban journal: http://learninglojban.wordpress.com
My personal blog: http://leomolas.tumblr.com
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