[lojban] Re: Lojban Kids Show

[Lindar <lindarthebard@yahoo.com>]

((ju'u twelve))

> (This got a lot longer than I intended, sorry. I just wanted to throw in
> stuff as brain food for traditions or habits in Lojgugde)

No apology necessary, this is fantastic.

> I'm not a part of your project (but I think it's amazing, and how in-depth
> you're making this is really cool).

-Everyone- is part of the project. I -LOVE- when people take an
interest, especially when they have something good to contribute.

> I thought I might add some ideas on the "culture" subject.

Add away!

> I learned some tid-bits of French culture (some of this applies to most
> other European countries)
> * The French build very close (not a lot of casual friendships) friendships
> which last a lifetime.  We may keep in contact with a few of our high school
> or college mates, but they stay in close relation with most/all of their
> friends (probably partly due to have their entire country the size of Texas)

I think this is fantastic.
I'd also like to see romantic friendships exist (but not in the kid's
story).

> * The European "personal bubble" is much smaller than our American one.
> Europeans stand very close to each other when talking (even at the store or
> fast-food place), which bothers most Americans who aren't used to it.

I think Europeans do that because they're a lot less worried about
privacy and they feel a lot closer to people in general, even
strangers. I don't think it's quite that small in England, but I've
experienced that around Italians, French, Spanish, Argentinians,
Brazilians, etc.

It bothers me immensely when Americans are way too close, but that's
mostly because they're really guarded and I can pick up on that.

> * (the French are more lax about this with tourists because they're used to
> it), before engaging anyone in conversation (sales clerk, pastry shop owner)
> you greet this person with "Bonjour" (ex: you don't say "excuse me sir do
> you know what time it is?", you say "Hello sir (then wait for him to say
> hello back), do you know what time it is?").  You also don't greet random
> people on the street with "Hi", like Americans sometimes will.

Point 1. That won't be an established thing. It may be appropriate to
{coi} and {fi'i} at once place, it may be better to {ju'i) and {re'i}
at another, it may be more appropriate to {pe'u} and {re'i} or even
{be'e} and {re'i}, or it may just be appropriate in some instances to
say {coi} and {coi}, though this seems to me that it would be for
familiar people only.

> * When children make friends the friends come to their house and are
> introduced to the parents (ex: "hi mom this my friend John, we're gonna go
> up to my room and play video games" doesn't normally happen), same goes for
> girl and boyfriends.

I didn't quite follow this. You say in Europe it doesn't usually
happen that friends/SO's are introduced to family? I don't see that
happening at all. It's mandatory in American, English, Chinese,
Arabic, Russian, Japanese, Thai, Viet, Australian, Brazilian,
Argentinian, Indian, and a LOT of other cultures that when bringing a
person home for whatever reason that they are introduced to the
family. In US/England (my experience) friends are briefly introduced,
SO's are picked over and examined by the family making sure to make
the family member bringing home said SO feel extremely awkward. In all
the other cultures I listed, as a friend I have gone over thinking I'm
going to hang out for a while only to find out that I have to meet Mom
and Dad (and I'm supposed to call them Mom and Dad), two sisters,
brother, Aunt, Uncle, Gran, and every single freaking one has to kiss
me, then I have to taste X thing that's been cooking all day, Aunty
has to tell me about the old country, I have to taste the thing that's
been cooking all day once more, I get something shoved in my mouth
that looks like a cream puff but has pork in it, then I sit down to a
family dinner and get fed more than anybody else at the table whilst
being interviewed like I'm dating the person that invited me over in
the first place.

So, I'm leaning towards introducing to the family, but could you
please elaborate?

> * The French school system will track kids (starting in middle school based
> on abilities and high school based on abilities and what job the kid wants
> in the future) if a student does poorly and falls out of their track you
> can't get them back in (so parents take schoolwork very seriously), and the
> teachers change classes, not kids.  So the kids are tracked exactly and are
> with kids doing things similar to what they plan to do.  Also the French
> have college paid for (like normal school), but you don't go back to college
> or change majors, you're lock into what you're doing.

I think it's a very free-form education system. One must take
compulsory education subjects up to age 9 in a one-hour-one-subject
class system (maths, lojban, basic social sciences/anthropology/
geography -ish class, computers, basic science (with emphasis on the
differences between artificial and natural gravity). After that point,
one should have three hours of one subject two days a week, and a
vocational/interest class the same. M - 3 hours Maths, 3 hours
Introduction to Orbital Physics, T - 3 hours Lojban, 3 hours
Introduction to Programming and Programming Concepts, W - 3 hours
World Anthropology, 3 hours Music Theory

I quite enjoyed a schedule like this when going to trade school, and
imagine this would be well-received by a lot of students with regard
to finishing topics. One could potentially not take any maths beyond
algebra or any other topic beyond what is required, and focus entirely
on one career path.

> Not saying this sort of stuff should be incorporated, mostly I'm throwing
> this out to get ideas of what sort of day to day culture actions could be
> added from existing cultures or made-up to make Lojgugde have it's own
> identity.

Please, throw as much as you like.

> What is the family dynamic (stay-at-home mom's common? 50 50 split stay at
> home moms and dads? is a stay-at-home rare?)

This isn't being touched with a 10-foot pole.
It's entirely avoided in the children's show.
(they attend a boarding school)

However, in this universe, for any other stories taking place here,
I'll discuss that.
There is no nuclear family bullshit. There are families with two moms
or two dads or two moms and a dad or two dads and a mom or whatever
kind of unit works for them. Some can stay at home, some can not, it's
not unusual for either gender to do either, and some families may have
all parents working, I can't really say what the norm is here.

> Do children often work in family businesses?

When families own family businesses, sure, why not?

> How does the school system work? (in England the public school system isn't
> great, but private (/boarding schools) are more common.  Do kids start at
> age 5? 3? 10?  Are they tracked (like the French school system)?

Boarding schools are probably going to be more common after age 9,
school starts at 5 with a basic schooling working on developing
advanced motor functions, social skills, writing and reading, etc.
Should be divided into 3 groups of 4 years after that. 1-4 is
compulsory education, 5-8 is finishing compulsory education and taking
personal interest or vocational courses, 9-10 is vocational.

> Do they take one course at a time (like one class all day for 4 weeks and
> then move onto another class)?  Do the kids have to take a traditional four
> courses, or do they study what interests them?

Hit that point earlier.

> What is the etiquette for greeting someone, "coi *name*", or "coi pendo".

Depends on preference. English hears a lot of, "Oy, whassappenin'
mate?" and the like.

> Do you say "coi mamta" or is the mother's name used?**

I have no idea and I was always curious about this myself.
I would think, {coi mamta}, but that won't be covered in the show due
to boarding school.

> Because they live in a space station do they have number of children laws?

Again, probably not going to touch on this in the show, but they
probably have some kind of population control, like keeping the
expansion to 1%/year maximum including immigrants. However, I don't
think there are going to be strict laws, I think people will just have
more common sense.

Also, practically, I don't see any reason why there can't be a few of
these stations around. So it's not like people are scrambling to leave
an overpopulated earth, there could be a dozen or more.

> Or do they just plan to build more "tubes" as population increases?

See above.

> Do their names change over time? (Native American style where they earn
> their names for their deeds/what they do), do they have a casual name and a
> close personal name? Do they even have middle or last names? Since we name
> kids stuff like Honor or Peace could a child be named "panpis" or are their
> names Lojbanizations of names from various Earth cultures?

It's not unusual to find people with gismu names, and it's not unusual
to see people with cmevla names based on gismu. As there's no real
convention for first/last name, It could be something like {la .djan.
pe la .smit.} for "John of the Smiths" or simply, "John Smith". I'm
not really sure as it's never been discussed AFAIK. I don't see middle
names being used, and I -do- see naming conventions being borrowed
from Japanese (friends will abbreviate your name however they see fit
or come up with any number of bizarre nicknames based on how your name
sounds/is read) and Native American culture. You may also indeed see
Lojbanised names from first generation kids or immigrants much like
you'll see for foreigners in Japan (who are legally required to have
their name be written in Japanese).

> Since the space station only seems to have about 200,000 residents (and
> maybe less at some point) are "families" famose or infamous in social satus
> within a local sense ( 1-5k radius for the suburb areas?) like small towns?

I don't think we're going to have anything like Dune or Morrowind, and
I don't think this is Desperate Housewives, so probably not.

> I've just been reading stuff on the mailing list, so I'm sorry if I said
> anything that has already been talked about, I was just thinking about the
> culture stuff which would be almost immediately encountered by the second or
> third episode/when "Alpha" meets "Beta's" family.

Don't apologise for helping. We love when strange people take an
interest and speak up.

> Theirs other stuff too like unions and how leadership/decisions are made,
> but I tried to stick with stuff "Alpha" would be more likely to encounter
> soon.

Please, hit all points. I'd love to hear more.
If you want some kind of title position in production, let us know. We
need all the help we can get, so feel free to take up a few hats. I'm
the producer/lead audio/dialogue editor/sound designer/rerecordist/
mixer/composer and a number of other things. The director is also the
concept artist, storyboard artist, keyframe artist, and a few other
art-related things. The scriptwriter is also the tweener. It's a small
production, so volunteers are always welcome.

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