Re: [lojban] Illogical English Sign

[Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com>]

I'm still not quite grasping the difference.

In {mi na kakne lo nu tolmo'i lo du'u do tolmo'i makau} the thing that I can't forget is {lo du'u} right?

In {mi na kakne lo nu tolmo'i lo fatci be fa lo du'u do tolmo'i} the thing that I can't forget is again, the fact that you forgot.  The thing that I forgot seems to be the same thing here, it's the fact that you've forgotten (something).

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what {makau} does.  Or I'm misunderstanding just what {lo du'u} is and how it's different from {lo fatci be fa...}

2010/8/6 Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 3:13 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
> hmmm, what's the difference between 2 and 3?  I was trying to say "I am not
> able to do the event of forgetting the fact that you've forgotten
> (something, who knows what)".

That would be (3), but "I can't forget what you've forgotten" can't mean that.

If what you've forgotten is that Beijing is the capital of China, then
(1) says I can't forget that Beijing is the capital of China, and (2)
says that I can't forget that you've forgotten that Beijing is the
capital of China.

Both are "I can't forget what you've forgotten".

mu'o mi'e xorxes


> 2010/8/6 Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com>
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 2:55 PM, Michael Turniansky
>> <mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 1:41 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> "I can't forget what you've forgotten".  Is the artist saying {mi na
>> >> kakne
>> >> lo nu tolmo'i da poi do tolmo'i ke'a} or {mi na kakne lo nu tolmo'i lo
>> >> fatci
>> >> be fa lo nu do tolmo'i}?
>> >>
>> >  It HAS to be the first one, in English.. the second is "I can't
>> > forget THAT you've forgotten."
>>
>> There are three cases:
>>
>> (1) mi na kakne lo nu tolmo'i lo se tolmo'i be do
>>     "I can't forget what you've forgotten."
>>
>> (2) mi na kakne lo nu tolmo'i lo du'u do tolmo'i makau
>>     "I can't forget what you've forgotten."
>>
>> (3) mi na kakne lo nu tolmo'i lo du'u do tolmo'i
>>     "I can't forget that you've forgotten."
>>
>> The English is ambiguous between (1) and (2), but Luke wrote (3) in
>> Lojban instead of (2), which goes with "that", not with "what".
>>
>> mu'o mi'e xorxes
>>
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