[lojban] Re: Teaching methods, especially WRT terminators, and validation thereof

[Lindar <lindarthebard@yahoo.com>]

> The problem is that what you describe could easily be about having
> had an in-person teacher, more than anything else.  We don't have
> any examples, that I'm aware of, of people who were taught by-hand
> with {cu} as a major part of the teaching.  Well, except for
> everyone who got their first lesson in person at various logfests,
> but you say we all don't count, which is very frustrating by the
> way.

Precisely why your mileage may vary. I don't know anything about
logfest. My world-view is coloured by my image of the community. What
is accessible to the average jackoff like myself and seems to have the
largest concentration of active people is what I consider the real
community. I have no personal experience with or stake in logfest (I
would love for that to change, don't get me wrong), so my opinion
doesn't reflect that.

> The only way to actually make a valid comparison would be to teach
> interactively in both fashions.

That sounds like an amazing experiment.
I would love to test that out, but we'd have to find two willing
participants.

> Not that it matters: if what you're doing is working, keep doing it.

Thank you. I shall.

> That doesn't mean everything else is wrong, though, and I'd ilke you
> to stop saying that.

This is part of what I was worried about. I'm not factually saying
anything.
That's probably why my argument doesn't mean anything, though.
I am saying that, in my opinion, as one who regularly teaches, it is
wrong.
However, I have certainly learned from this, and will start collecting
data. =D

> That's a flat-out lie, so I hope you corrected him on this point.

That was a slight exaggeration on my part. I tend to do that a lot.
It's a frequently observed thing, not a law/fact. =D

> And in my opinion, there is no evidence that the way we learned is
> the wrong way, particularily.  Referring to it as such is a lot
> worse than the faulty logic you describe.

Right, I'm not saying it is. You and xorxes are both wearing two
shoes, there's no doubt about that. I'm trying to differentiate
between fact and opinion here. I am fully aware that there is no
established fact. By the very merit that you are the metaphorical two-
shoe-wearer, you are de-facto correct. I'm simply explaining my
personal viewpoint.

((Meta-topic discussion: How do I convey accurately that I am not
asserting, but expressing? What I feel and what I know to be true/
known are two completely different things, and I am/was trying to
express the former and absolutely nothing at all of the latter, but it
seems that you have interpreted my post as the latter, rather than the
intended former. I'm glad that I haven't come off as rude, however.
Thank you for guiding me in proper discourse and discussion.))

Also, re: xorxes writes stuff. (disclaimer: see above bits about
'expression not assertion')

I could spend all day writing albums of music in, creating shows/art/
comics about, or writing in, Lojban. That doesn't make me a part of
the community. The fact that I am grass-roots involved in teaching,
talking to people via the mailing list/IRC/facebook/twitter/identica/
tumblr, and involved in a larger social network of Lojbanists who
discuss Lojban and things Lojbanic makes me part of the community.
Writing a book is doing something by oneself, which by its very nature
is not a communal effort.

So, just making absolutely sure. Nothing I have said here is meant to
assert anything, only to express my feelings, which I'm already aware
are entirely separate from fact.

((Thank you for the posts, Robin. Your input is always appreciated,
and I think it's fantastic that you make a point of thanking people
for doing what they do here.))

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