On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 11:02 PM, Lindar
<lindarthebard@yahoo.com> wrote:
<snip>
1. You have both ridiculous amounts of time and proficiency against me
that I could not possibly test within a reasonable time frame. So we
could either operate on the presupposition that I -am- correct so we
can test this and know for sure over a reasonable period of time, or
we can continue to operate under the assumption that your way
(hereafter known as The Wrong Way zo'o) is correct. It wouldn't hurt
anything, and it would find an answer.
Not everyone that likes The Wrong Way zo'o is as proficient as .xorxes. I, for instance, have got the grammar down pretty well, but my vocab. is atrocious. I don't see anything wrong with the 'teach {ku} first' way, I just disagree with your view that {cu} is a horribly repulsive thing that should never be used, even to the extent of using {ku} instead, which could lead to the possibility of having {ku kei ge'u ku'o lo'o lu'u}, where you could use {cu}. Now, I admit to not having an example bridi using all those terminators, there may be terminators {cu} doesn't enable elision of I missed, and some of those I listed may not be able to elid with {cu}. It is an extreme example to show my point.
My view is that /terminators/ are horrible repulsive things that should never be used unless absolutely necessary, but that's probably more a symptom of myself being both an English speaker and one of those jerks from Obamaland, and therefore extremely lazy, than from the method I use to learn {la lojbau}..
2. While you are a very productive and valued member of the community,
I feel that you haven't been a part of it. I haven't seen you produce
anything (like Remo, selkik, or kampu), be the backbone of the
community (like Robin), or be a helpful sage to newbies of IRC (like
xalbo, ARJ, or Shoulsen). I definitely haven't seen you try to make an
effort to reach new audiences and expand the community to new venues
of learning and social media like I've been doing/trying/failing at.
Really, the only thing I have seen you do is pitch in your two cents
here and there. Whether or not any of this is the case, that is how I
perceive you. Subsequently, I don't feel like you have very much
weight to say much of anything. You come off as old guard, attached to
old ways simply because they're what you had when you weren't old
guard, and completely out of touch with anything modern. You sound to
me like how a surgeon from 1910 must sound to a modern one.
.xorxes. is one of the most respected members of this community. I don't think anyone would say his word is law, and most everyone has at least privately disagreed with him on occasion, what he says is well thought out, usually makes a good deal of sense, and is agreeable to the majority if not the entirety of those who listen to him.
Also, {xorlo}, the biggest contribution to Lojban since events before I joined. It's named xorlo after the creator of the proposal.
<snip>
4. Nobody wants to stay with the community long enough to prove either
point. The sad reality of it is that no matter how hard we teach this
way and no matter how many students we actually get to learn and speak
this way, our new students don't actually stick with us.
<snip>
Have you managed to determine the likely causes for their casual interest failing to develop into a more serious one?