[lojban] Re: Teaching methods, especially WRT terminators, and validation thereof

[Lindar <lindarthebard@yahoo.com>]

> Not everyone that likes The Wrong Way zo'o is as proficient as .xorxes. I,
> for instance, have got the grammar down pretty well, but my vocab. is
> atrocious. I don't see anything wrong with the 'teach {ku} first' way, I

Awesome. I like that.

> just disagree with your view that {cu} is a horribly repulsive thing that
> should never be used, even to the extent of using {ku} instead, which could
> lead to the possibility of having {ku kei ge'u ku'o lo'o lu'u}, where you

I think I've calmed down now about that. I like to joke about when I
use it.
Honestly, my rule seems to be 35% of the time replacing keiku and 100%
of the time for kuku/kukeiku.
I tend not to use it unless it's actually necessary to not sound
overly verbose.
Where I'd have to say {.i lo broda be lo brode ku be'o ku brodi vau}
I'd say {.i lo broda be lo brode cu brodi} simply because it can't be
reduced to a single terminator. For things like {.i lo nu broda vau
kei ku brode vau} I'd just say {.i lo nu broda ku brode}, and I'll
terminate various other things (li, noi, etc.) if I feel like being
very clear.

> could use {cu}. Now, I admit to not having an example bridi using all those
> terminators, there may be terminators {cu} doesn't enable elision of I
> missed, and some of those I listed may not be able to elid with {cu}. It is
> an extreme example to show my point.

.i lo nu broda kei ku lo brode ku brodi
.i lo nu broda ku lo brode cu brodi
                     ^ required terminator

> My view is that /*terminators*/ are horrible repulsive things that should
> never be used unless absolutely necessary, but that's probably more a
> symptom of myself being both an English speaker and one of those jerks from
> Obamaland, and therefore extremely lazy, than from the method I use to learn
> {la lojbau}..

Huh... just like soap and talking to the common folk when going to
market? =P

> .xorxes. is one of the most respected members of this community. I don't
> think anyone would say his word is law, and most everyone has at least
> privately disagreed with him on occasion, what he says is well thought out,
> usually makes a good deal of sense, and is agreeable to the majority if not
> the entirety of those who listen to him.

Has done is not is doing.

> Also, {xorlo}, the biggest contribution to Lojban since events before I
> joined. It's named xorlo after the creator of the proposal.

I know, and he gets major props for that.

If I haven't said it before, I'll say it now. Jorge, you are a valued
member of this community. I appreciate your input, regardless of
whether or not I agree with it, and I always welcome it.

> Have you managed to determine the likely causes for their casual interest
> failing to develop into a more serious one?

I really wish I could figure this out. I think it's that Lojban just
isn't important enough, and many people find that life takes away the
free time they thought they had. Sadly, 'fake languages' rank below
soul-numbing MMOs and other nonproductive hobbies, which people have
little time for between work, friends, and a bitchy significant other.
Life is rough, and Lojban seems to be the first thing to get cut when
somebody is looking to create more free/spare time.

Thank you for your input and perspective on the situation.

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