[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]
Re: [lojban] Re: other-centric UI
and it is entirely within your right to disagree. Of course, it is also the right of the jboce'u to say "ok, great, disagree. now go talk your own special language to yourself because that's not the language that we made/use and please don't call what you're doing lojban".
The CLL and what sounds like the majority of the jboce'u say that {.ai mi dansu} means "I intend to dance". I believe that this is both right and wrong. I think that UI cannot be expressed in english in text alone. I would translate {.ai mi dansu} as "I'm gonna dance" (spoken with a certain inflection that connotates intention).
Your statement was something like "what's the point of pacna if .a'o means the same thing". That to me sounds kind of like "what's the point of dunli if we have du". Different connotation, different style, just... different.
If I heard "mi pacna lo nu do kanro" I would translate this in my head as "I hope that you are healthy". If I heard ".a'o do kanro" I would translate that as... well, probably the same thing but it's more like I'm using intonation to express my hopefulness i.e. I would use it if I were inquiring about the health of a sick friend.
basically, please stop getting glico all over my jbobau. Just because two lojban sentences translate similarly into english doesn't mean that they mean the same thing. And it also certainly does not mean that the construct that allows both sentences is broken.
Yeah, "I am dancing and I feel hopeful about it" sounds far more useless than "I hope to dance". In the case where you want to express that (whatever it means) you could always just say {mi dansu .ije cinmo lo ka pacna ku di'u}.
On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 12:00 AM, Lindar
<lindarthebard@yahoo.com> wrote:
> So either this is a bug in CLL that needs to be fixed next time there
> is a re-print or UI can have propositional meaning.
It's kind of a bug in the language. One can't ask a question without
UI being able to completely change the meaning of a sentence, but then
that destroys half of the language because {.i e'u do dansu}
apparently means "I suggest you dance." according to CLL. If that's
the case, what the hell is the point of having a word like stidi?
What's the point of having any words? Why not just have all emoticraps
and sumti and not have a real language? (sorry, nerdrage) My point is
that the CLL claims {.i .e'u do dansu} means "I suggest you dance."
and I say that (that is absolutely stupid, and) it means, "You dance."
and the speaker feels suggestive. What should -really- be said is
{.i .e'u ko dansu}, which comes off to me like a softening of ko so it
doesn't sound so demanding. It sounds like, "You should dance.". Now
what the Lojban -should- be is {.i mi stidi lo nu do dansu} because
that -actually means- "I suggest you dance.".
I will definitely admit that {.i .ai mi klama} could be read with an
implicit ba in there, but the UI in of itself doesn't affect the
meaning as much as you would like.
HOWEVER!!
Devil's advocate time!
If UI -doesn't- change the meaning of bridi like it suggests in CLL,
then the meaning of {xu} is completely lost. Instead of asking a
question, we're making uncertain assertions. {.i xu do dansu} is no
longer "Are you dancing?" or "Do you dance?" or "Are you a dancer?"
but "You dance." and you feel incorrect or uncertain about your
statement.
So we could either find some happy medium, I could be wrong about the
whole mess and then be a whiny emo brat and quit because I disagree
with everyone and don't want to speak a retarded language wherein UI
actually changes the meaning of a bridi instead of expressing one's
feelings (giant zo'o here if you didn't catch that =P), or we could
create a word like ma/mo for bridi/jufra.
I haven't a clue what to do, I just know that I disagree. =D
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.