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Re: [lojban] ma krinu lonu lo jbopre na tavla fo la.lojban. ne'i levi snustu | Why aren't we speaking in Lojban in here?
2010/9/21 Krzysztof Sobolewski <jezuch@interia.pl>:
> Dnia wtorek, 21 września 2010 o 17:57:57 Michael Turniansky napisał(a):
>> I use constructions like "setese" for three reasons -- 1) when I'm
>> translating and trying to mimic the word order of the velfanva 2) When
>> I'm trying to emphasize one sumti over another (it's paradigmatic that
>> earlier sumti places seem to be perceived as "more important" than
>> later ones), and/or 3) If I have a complex sumti, I'd rather throw it
>> at the end of the sentence rather than have to put a whole bunch of
>> terminators so that you can "pop up" a half dozen levels and have to
>> remember "what was the main selbri again? Oh, yeah..." before getting
>> to the next sumti. That's a lot of processing power to ask of a human
>> listener/reader. (I tend to write lojban like I speak English -- with
>> lots of subrodinate cruft)
>> --gejyspa
>
> All of these can also be achieved by using FA, right? What I find a little unsettling with "setese" etc. is that conversion does not merely reorder the places, but creates a completely new relation. "se klama" is subtly but importantly different from "klama". It's easy to get with "se", but how should I interpret it with "setese"?
> --
But that's because (it seems to me) you are still thinking about
lojban brivla as if they were single natlang words. "se klama" does
NOT mean "a destination" It means. X1 is where x2 is going from x3
via route x4 and vehicle x5. The place values are just as important.
"setese frati" means "x1 is reacting to x2 with reaction x3", an order
which is natural enough in English (can't speak to other natlangs).
--gejyspa
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