Re: [lojban] despite ...

[Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com>]

On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 7:24 AM, Remo Dentato <rdentato@gmail.com> wrote:
> What would be the best way to translate "despite" in a sentence like:
>
> "I like you despite your bad behavior"
>
> I used {gu mi nelci do gi do maljikca}

I never remember whether in "gu X gi Y" it is X or Y whose truth value
is irrelevant to the truth value of the whole. I'd like to think it's
X, because it is the one next to the "u", but I have the nagging
suspicion that it may be defined the other way in CLL.

> and I've been suggested by
> Pierre to use BAI like {mi nelci do mu'inai lenu do maljikca} or {mi
> nelci do ki'unai maljikca} but I can't decide which one better renders
> the original.

With "gu ... gi ... " you are saying that you like them, and you are
not saying one way or the other whether their behavior is bad or not,
nor are you implying that there is or could be any causal connection
between them. (One may assume that, since you are putting the two
together, you may be suggesting that there might have been a causal
connection, and since you used the ja'a form of "do maljikca" one
might assume that you think it is actually the case, but you are not
in a logical way asserting any of that.)

> Using modals seems to more like saying "it's not because you misbheave
> that I like you".

That's how I would analyze it to.

> Has anyone a suggestion for this case?

"to'e mu'i nai": "I like you not prevented/demotivated by your misbehaviour"

The problem is that, in Lojban tradition, "mu'i nai" itself has been
analyzed as what should have been "to'e mu'i nai", so you will find it
widely used that way.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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