Re: [lojban] despite ...

[Remo Dentato <rdentato@gmail.com>]

2010/10/20 Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com>:
> On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 7:24 AM, Remo Dentato <rdentato@gmail.com> wrote:
>> What would be the best way to translate "despite" in a sentence like:
>>
>> "I like you despite your bad behavior"
>>
>> I used {gu mi nelci do gi do maljikca}
>
> I never remember whether in "gu X gi Y" it is X or Y whose truth value
> is irrelevant to the truth value of the whole. I'd like to think it's
> X, because it is the one next to the "u", but I have the nagging
> suspicion that it may be defined the other way in CLL.

In fact in the CLL {gu X gi Y} is reported as:

"X is true, wheter or not Y"

I agree that this is not exactly as "despite". It should be more like
"regadless".

"despite" has the implication that I *know* that you misbheave but I
still like you.
"regardless" does not say anything about your behavior.

>> Using modals seems to more like saying "it's not because you misbheave
>> that I like you".
>
> That's how I would analyze it to.
>
> "to'e mu'i nai": "I like you not prevented/demotivated by your misbehaviour"

Let me see if I understand. {to'e mu'i nai} is to be grouped as {(to'e
mu'i) nai}
  {mu'i} is for "motivated by"
  {to'e mu'i} is for "demotived by"
  {to'e mu'i nai} is for "not demotived by"

Correct?

> The problem is that, in Lojban tradition, "mu'i nai" itself has been
> analyzed as what should have been "to'e mu'i nai", so you will find it
> widely used that way.

I see. But I thing that just {mu'i nai} would generate confusion, I'll
use {to'e mu'i nai}.

Thanks xorxes!

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