Re: [lojban] Re: mi kakne lo bajra

[John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>]

Well, in fact, over the last 35 years or so, there has been this discussion 
about 'djica' (and similar ones in other cases) and for over 100 years (at 
least; I haven't checked) there has been the corresponding argument in logic and 
philosophy.  And the answer has generally been as your report, the objects of 
desire are events.  But since very few languages actually talk that way, some 
need arises to explain how the talking works.  And that generally comes down to 
saying that the event, other than its focus, tends to be very vague, but always 
there.  This will not, as you say, do for a logical language so we need to carry 
at least a minimal event along with our pointing to the focal object.  And do in 
this prevents us from making a bad logical mistake.  Except in the case of 
things identified in the present situation.  For them, we can allow reference to 
the vestigial event to drop and no ill will come of it, if we treat them like 
ordinary terms, not buried ones.  I suppose this is a concession to bad habits 
(not just English, of course, but most natural languages) but it is, at least 
one that does no harm.  The 'tu'a lo plise' route. is another concession, 
brought about partly by the fact that we don't generally have a very clear idea 
of just what we want of the focal object: its existence or even our possession 
of it in some legal or practical sense seem too little, but any more precise 
exposition seems off , too.  Basically, I don't think we can do any better than 
that and people will keep talking in wrong-headed ways, but being understood  - 
somewhat gurdgingly.  Their remarks aren't bad grammar, they just don't actually 
say what they think they say, but that is hardly a rare experience in Lojban.




----- Original Message ----
From: Lindar <lindarthebard@yahoo.com>
To: lojban <lojban@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tue, November 2, 2010 6:02:40 PM
Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: mi kakne lo bajra

please regard my response on cinch. http://cinchcast.com/lindarthebard

:-)

much love

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