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Re: [lojban] mind map of lojban terms
Not wrong, since usage is all over the place on these words, just confusing and
perhaps confused. Going back to basics (I think, but there are other consistent
ways to do this), most of these expressions refer to linguistic items, words or
phrases. In this view. a bridi is a full clause, a predicate (selbri) with all
its arguments (terbri) in place. A predicate may be a brivla (vowel final,
penult stress, CC in first five letters not counting y and ', etc,) or a member
of a select set of cmavo (little words, vowel final, on or two syllables, no
inherent stress) (plus, often, suumti as well) or (and here we get a recursion
to cover all the horrors that can arise) a tanru (two or more simple predicates
in a matrix of combinatory forms). For simplicity, I'll assume all of the
predicate is in this core cluster, ignoring various floating prepositions, which
might strictly be included. The arguments are sumti (Noun Phrases -- except
that 'sumti' is sometimes used to mean 'argument', leaving noun phrases that
aren't arguments without a name. Of course, my way leaves arguments without a
Lojban name, except terbri). Skipping recursion again, a sumti is either a
cmevla (ends in a consonant) preceded by 'la' (a proper name) or one of another
group of cmavo or a gadri (article -- another group of cmavo) or quantifier
followed by a bridi less its first argument (and some other changes with regard
to the other arguments) or much the same thing preceded by 'la' (a compound
name). Selbri (predicates) refer to relations, sumti (NP) refer to things (in
Lojban's generous sense). Simple predicates are gismu (defined basic
predicatesCCVcv or CVCcv), lujvo (portmanteau words) , and fu'ivla (normalized
borrowed words) (many rules apply to the two latter as to form and manner of
construction).
----- Original Message ----
From: Remo Dentato <rdentato@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sat, November 13, 2010 2:58:48 PM
Subject: Re: [lojban] mind map of lojban terms
On Sat, Nov 13, 2010 at 4:52 PM, John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I smell a use-mention confusion here, though it is hard to pin down. xorxes
is
> quite careful in his remarks about 'lerfu', but some other points are less
> clear. As usual, the problem seems to circle around the core. A bridi is a
> predicate, therefore a word or phrase. A selbri is then the abstract entity,
>a
> relation, to which the bridi refers (or, maybe. means). A sumti is then a
> object which is involved in the selbri relation, a relatum. A brivla is a
word
> that can serve as a bridi.
Sorry John, in the text above I couldn't really follow you. I'm not
even sure if you're saying that what I wrote is wrong or not. And in
case it was wrong I can get how to make it right!
> The definition of 'tanru' is then suspect since it
> groups words (brivla) to form not a phrase (bridi) but a relation (selbri).
In fact I said that a tanru is a selbri, not a brivla. What is wrong with that?
> Similarly, a gadri is said to transform a selbri, a relation, into a sumti, a
> relatum.
Isn't it? I mean from the selbri {plise} I get the sumti {lo plise} don't I?
> Further, a cmevla is said to be a word usable as a name ; but every
> word is usable as a name, to this not quite what is wanted.
Ok, maybe I get this. Would it be better if I say that a cmevla can
*only* be used as name?
> And cmene is said
> to be a way of referring, rather than something that refers in a certain way.
> Sorting all this out seems a tedious task but maybe necessary, since I think
> all of the usages mentioned here actually occur from time to time in the
> literature.
I'll be happy to do it if you could give some more input.
Please remember that a mind map (or a cheat sheet in genaral) is not
meant to explain all the finest details but to be used as a reminder
and to ease grasping the essential aspects of a topic.
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