Re: [lojban] mind map of lojban terms

[John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>]

I smell a use-mention confusion here, though it is hard to pin down.  xorxes is 
quite careful in his remarks about 'lerfu', but some other points are less 
clear. As usual, the problem seems to circle around the core.  A bridi is a 
predicate, therefore  a word or phrase.  A selbri is then the abstract entity, a 
relation, to which the bridi refers (or, maybe. means).  A sumti is then a 
object which is involved in the selbri relation, a relatum.  A brivla is a word 
that can serve as a bridi.  The definition of 'tanru' is then suspect since it 
groups words (brivla) to form not a phrase (bridi) but a relation (selbri). 
 Similarly, a gadri is said to transform a selbri, a relation, into a sumti, a 
relatum.  Further, a cmevla is said to be  a word usable as a name ; but every 
word is usable as a name, to this not quite what is wanted.  And cmene is said 
to be a way of referring, rather than something that refers in a certain way. 
 Sorting all this out seems a tedious task but maybe necessary, since I think 
all of the usages mentioned here actually occur from time to time in the 
literature.
From: Remo Dentato <rdentato@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sat, November 13, 2010 9:13:03 AM
Subject: Re: [lojban] mind map of lojban terms

2010/11/13 Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com>:
> On Sat, Nov 13, 2010 at 11:17 AM, Remo Dentato <rdentato@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I think I would skip {jufra} and {selsku}, I was trying to list those
>> words that express lojbanic concepts.
>
> In that case, you may want to remove "cmene" and "valsi". There's
> nothing especially lojbanic about them. Possibly "gadri" too.
>
> I know you don't mean this to be overly accurate, but the way "lerfu"
> is often used in English it does not to mean "letter", but
> "letter-word", or even "letter-phrase". We will say that "by" is a
> lerfu, and that ".abu" is a lerfu, even though "by" is a word, not a
> letter, and ".abu" is two words, not a letter.

You're right. Actually {cmene} is there mainly to remind me the
difference with {cmevla} and {valsi} to provide a branch for the
different types of words.

I've added {slaka bu} and {denpa bu}. I was wondering if also add
{.y'y} ... The "thing to remember" in this case is that they are
letters and not punctuation but this seems a little bit weak to me...

I'll post a new version later, hoping for other comments to come.

Thanks!

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