Re: [lojban] Time for the perenial other-centric-.ui conversation

[John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>]

But there is something odd about asking someone to express on a scale.  
Presumably, he has already expressed his degree of happiness in some way, since 
that is what we are asking about -- refine your expression.  But under these 
conditions what we are asking for in not actually an expression but information, 

we want to know a fact.  And that just isn't what UI (and UICAI) are about.  If 
I stop and consider whether to say 'uicai' or 'uicu'i' or 'uinai' or decide to 
stick with just 'ui' I am no longer expressing my happiness in any natural sense 

of the word, but rather describing it.  If I burst in the room and say "uicai, I 

passed", then I am probably expressing my extreme happiness.  If, on the other 
hand, I stop to analyze my feelings and then say 'uicai' I am more likely 
seeking to give information -- especially if I do it in answer to a question. 
 And UICAI is not about giving information.




----- Original Message ----
From: Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sun, November 28, 2010 3:52:49 PM
Subject: Re: [lojban] Time for the perenial other-centric-.ui conversation

On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 6:10 PM, John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com> wrote:
> So, the question is how a word that expresses the speaker's emotions comes
> to have a propositional function: How are you feeling on the happiness
> scale?

No, "ui pei" just asks the interlocutor to express themself using the
"ui ___" format. The paraphrase "How are you feeling on the happiness
sacle?" is just that, a paraphrase.

> So, here
> is a cute dodge; never mind it literally makes no sense (indeed, a mark of a
> good idiom).

It makes as much sense as any other question.

> The other UICAI are expressions of MY emotion; this is now
> suddenly of YOURS which, of course makes no sense.

When I make I claim, say "la .djan. klama lo zarci", the claim is MY
claim. When I ask a question, the bridi is sudenly no longer MY claim,
but a pattern for you to make a claim. The relationship between "ui
pei" and "ui sai" is no different from that between "la .djan. klama
ma" and "la .djan. klama lo zarci" in that respect.

> The problems seems to
> lie ultimately with 'pei' itself: it calls upon a person to express his
> emotion, but not as an expression of an emotion, rather as an factual answer
> to a factual question

No, "ui pei" asks the person to respond "ui ja'ai" or "ui nai" (or any
of the other possibilities).

mu'o mi'e xorxes

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.



      

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.