Re: [lojban] Re: GIhA question

[Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com>]

  Yes, I did receive this three times... My response below.

On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 5:26 AM, slobin <cyril.slobin@gmail.com> wrote:
> Seems like gmail have troubles delivering my post to the list.Trying
> to repost this by google groups web interface. Sorry if you are
> reading this second or third time.
>
> On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 1:41 PM, Michael Turniansky
> <mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>  Also, if you DID want to have same unspecified-but-obvious object
>> that you both talked to and ate, you could say "mi tavla gi'e citka
>> vau zo'e"
>
> After a cup of tea: I think now that you are wrong. {mi tavla gi'e
> citka vau da} is equal to {mi tavla da gi'e citka da}, where {da} IS a
> shared object. {mi tavla gi'e citka vau zo'e} is equal to {mi tavla
> zo'e gi'e citka zo'e}, where {zo'e} IS NOT a shared object.
>
> Unless you agree with this, you must state that either (1) adding an
> elidable terminator {vau} changes a meaning of sentence, or (2) using
> {zo'e} has a different meaning that an absent argument. Both seems not
> plausible for me.
>

  I am asserting number 2.  zo'e is implicitly placed where an empty
argument appears, but that doesn't mean that it is the SAME as an
empty argument.  For if it were, I could claim that when I say "mi
klama le zarci" I am actually asserting "mi klama fo le zarci", and I
simply elided the zo'e's in "mi klama zo'e zo'e le zarci"  Patently
false.

> For the second possibility: consider me wanting to share the third
> argument, not the second. I've always believed that {mi tavla zo'e da}
> and {mi tavla fi da} are equivalent, and therefore {mi tavla gi'e
> pinxe vau zo'e da} and {mi tavla gi'e pinxe vau fi da} are equivalent
> too.

  Yes, I agree with all of that. And furthermore, they are both (I
assert) equivalent to mi tavla zo'e gi'e pinxe zo'e vau da.  I don't
see where you have seen me asserting anything different than that.



>
> BTW, this (unlike talking to things eaten) has really happen with me
> during today New Year party! ;-)
>
         --gejyspa

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