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Re: [lojban] Re: How it should have been. And how it could be.



la .esdybyliu'eitc cmene ma

On Sat, Jun 25, 2011 at 10:44 AM, John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Yes, but ...  To be sure, the only hope of getting money for Lojban (et seq)
> is from computer uses.  But if they want a language to use with computers,
> they will build one to fit computers -- without all the frills that human
> languages have.  And, for that matter, if you have to learn a new language
> to use a computer, then a computer language is the way to go.  Of course,
> some folks still hold out hope for being able to translate natural languages
> into computerese, but that is a much longer shot.  So, I don't think that
> LoCCan3 is going anywhere (unless Lojban gets a new Napoleon type, which
> leads to a fragmentation again -- which will happen eventually, if the
> project lasts long enough).
> As a further strike, Lojban is looked upon as a cult language, like Klingon
> and Na'vi (and maybe Dothraki -- the first results aren't in yet) and so the
> people who know it and could teach it are considered flakes -- or worse.
> (As a flake, I have to note that the Na'vi clearly have a hierarchy and a
> relgion, so they almost inevitably have a high language and a common one.
> You can't talk to a chief or a god in the same way you talk to the schlump
> next door.  As for complex rules, many languages of primitive people are as
> bad as Sanskrit or worse, so that isn't unrealistic.  Na'vi is a second rate
> conlang, but seems to work OK, in context and out.)
> Don't get excited about SWH -- every version presented so far has either had
> nothing to do with S and W or was a prima facie crock.  And usually both.
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Muhammad Nael <muhammad.nael@gmail.com>
> To: lojban@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Sat, June 25, 2011 11:27:22 AM
> Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: How it should have been. And how it could be.
>
> Actually, it exists only as a communication medium between humans and AI’s
> so dominant at the time. Despite being an overused idea, its fresh blood
> comes from its Arabic-Eastern culture POV that, to my experience, is very
> rare in the western -and generally the global- market.
>
> I’m currently working -if you'd call what I'm work- on (Renodré), a
> fictional language another ‘entity’ uses in the story; it’s, however, meant
> to be a personal language that is subject to normal flaws of natural
> languages. Its development didn’t help me in the logical human-AI language
> thing.
>
> I understand that if a large institution funds such a large project, it will
> be greatly skewed in favour of its needs. However, how about seeking funding
> from several large institutions, each funds the aspect it needs (a bit
> shallow I know), but with general guidelines laid out to prevent any from
> gaining advantage over the other, and to make sure it meets its purpose for
> public usage.
>
> If you can get academic support in form of linguists and mathematicians, I
> believe that although Lojban needed 25 years of development over Loglan’s
> 30, Loghnat (a name I chose) would roughly take 10 years over Loglan’s and
> Lojban’s 55 with merely academic linguistic and mathematical support and
> very little general public donations.
>
> Just look at the amount of advertisement and support Na’ví gets, just
> because it was used in James’ Cameron’s gorgeous, shallow Avatar! How in
> life would primitive jungle-dependant life forms have formal and informal
> sentences in their language, let alone the tremendous amount of rules in it,
> they haven’t had the time to write all this, have they?
>
> I’m one of the few who believe in pure-thought theory, although altered to
> replace language with visual clues instead of the
> undefined-pure-thought-raw-material in which others believed, so I never
> really had any interest in the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis, although I’m
> beginning to change my mind.
>
> Google is currently funding several linguistic and artistic projects for
> Egyptian graduates, maybe you know someone here who might be a possible
> candidate to propose this to Google? I know it’s weird from to say this
> (living in Egypt and all!) but I’m afraid I don’t know any suitable ones
> here, I don’t know if you have any in your community however. I’ll and check
> the university but without promises.
>
> I’ll write the two follow ups later, I need to go.
>
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