Re: [lojban] Meaning of multiple negations

["John E. Clifford" <kali9putra@yahoo.com>]

Or 'su'o'

Sent from my iPad

On Jul 22, 2011, at 17:51, Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 12:41 PM, Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Indefinite descriptions shouldn't reduce to {da} constructs, I'm fairly
>> sure; they should reduce to {lo} constructs.
> 
> I disagree, but as you say it's not relevant here.
> 
>> Regardless, beginning here:
>> su'o da poi prenu cu ricfu gi'e na gleki
>> You can indeed reduce it to what you had,
> 
> Good.
> 
>> but that also reduces just as well
>> to:
>> su'o da poi prenu goi ko'a cu ricfu .ije ko'a na gleki
> 
> No, it doesn't. What is the value assigned to "ko'a" in that first
> bridi? Is it any one person, some person who is rich, some person who
> is both rich and not happy, or something else?  Can the assignment of
> a value or values to ko'a depend on the second bridi? Attaching "goi
> ko'a" to something that doesn't have referents (i.e. a quantifier
> expression) is somewhat strange, because "goi ko'a" is meant to assign
> some referent(s) to ko'a.
> 
>> in which case the bridi with the gleki gives {na} full bridi scope. The
>> bridi tail connectives and forethought connectives all do this, pe'i ca'e
>> ru'e. The assignment is subtle, however, I agree; I'm thinking of it as
>> being purely syntactic, since I don't know how to quantify a prenex over
>> several jufra.
> 
> To use a prenex that is common to several sentences you can use
> "prenex tu'e sentence .i sentence .i sentence ... tu'u", but how does
> that help with the ko'a assignment?
> 
> If by "purely syntactic" you mean that "ko'a" is standing for the
> expression "su'o da poi prenu" (which I don't think it can) then it
> still doesn't work, because "su'o da poi prenu cu ricfu .ije su'o da
> poi prenu na gleki" doesn't have the desired meaning under any scope
> rule for "na".
> 
> mu'o mi'e xorxes
> 
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