Re: [lojban] groupyness in definitions

[John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>]

I suspect it would help to figure out what it says in English first.  "a is miscellaneous/assorted/mixed in property b"  First of all, b is presumably a generic property, although I suppose it could be specific (some members have it, some don't) or scalar.  Next, we can't do much with taking members of the set one at a time, since there may be several members of a which are the same with respect to b but different from some others (I happen to be ingesting my favorite snack, Necco Wafers, which is in each package an assortment of disks of seven different flavors, even though there are thirty or so disks in a package).  So, the simplest way to define 'vrici' is "not uniform in b" "there are two members of a which are different with respect to b", though we might require more variety or at least more members that differ.

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From: Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sat, July 23, 2011 1:21:57 PM
Subject: [lojban] groupyness in definitions

I was thinking about how one would define "vrici" in lojban (I've since looked it up and xorxes has already done this).  But at the time, I came up with something like {ro xyxipa cu frica ro lo drata xyxipa lo ka xyxire}.

Then I thought some more about it and started wondering if that {drata} was really doing what I wanted it to.  If we're talking about {ro lo broda} then we're saying "all of those things that broda which are within the scope of our discourse".  But now if I say "ro lo drata broda" that "other"ness is being applied to the "broda" and then we take "all of that".

Is there a way to say "all of the things in xyxipa taken as individuals are different from each of (all of the things in the set xyxipa minus itself as individuals) in property xyxire".

I'm clearly not well-versed in talking about groups and individuals and whatnot but I hope I've at least gotten the root of my question through.

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