Re: [lojban] groupyness in definitions

[Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com>]

On Sat, Jul 23, 2011 at 3:21 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
> I was thinking about how one would define "vrici" in lojban (I've since
> looked it up and xorxes has already done this).  But at the time, I came up
> with something like {ro xyxipa cu frica ro lo drata xyxipa lo ka xyxire}.

You have three sumti there: "ro xyxipa", "ro lo drata", "xyxipa" and a
fourth incomplete one "lo ka xyxire ... mo".

(Officially "ro xyxipa" is only a number, not a sumti, so the whole
thing is ungrammatical because of that first part too, but I agree
that PA and BY should not mix, so I won't take points off for that.)

You seem to be using "xyxipa" as a selbri, but it's a sumti.

> Then I thought some more about it and started wondering if that {drata} was
> really doing what I wanted it to.  If we're talking about {ro lo broda} then
> we're saying "all of those things that broda which are within the scope of
> our discourse".  But now if I say "ro lo drata broda" that "other"ness is
> being applied to the "broda" and then we take "all of that".
> Is there a way to say "all of the things in xyxipa taken as individuals
> are different from each of (all of the things in the set xyxipa minus itself
> as individuals) in property xyxire".

ro da poi me xyxipa cu frica ro de poi me xyxipa gi'e drata da ku'o xyxire

I don't think "vrici" requires such total difference among the x1's though.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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