Re: [lojban] Far away

[Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com>]

On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 2:39 PM, Stela Selckiku <selckiku@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 12:51 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I originally thought that {vi} and friends were just like {ca} such that {mi
>> tcidu vi lo tricu} would be understood as "I read [short-distance-from] a
>> tree" and if I had used {vu} instead it would have been "I read
>> [long-distance-from] a tree".
>
> That's the old standard definition.
>
>> A while back though, I was corrected by someone or other that I want {bu'u}
>> and friends for that sort of thing and that my original sentence actually means
>> something else (what it means I don't remember any more).
>
> What it means under the new definition is "I read a short distance
> from something, and the length of that distance is a tree."  Utter
> nonsense, as trees aren't lengths.
>
> This new definition was invented because there's no other convenient
> way to specify distances, which is a FAQ and useful thing to be able
> to do.  No one uses termsets, so no one taught nintadni to use
> termsets for it.  Someone sometime got the idea-- either accidentally
> or intentionally-- to repurpose ZI and VA.  Because it's so
> astoundingly useful, it's spread to be perhaps the most common way
> those tags are used, even though no one bothered to try to make it
> official or, apparently, to convince la gejyspa.
>
>> .ija'ebo I don't use VI/ZI/etc.. any more as tags.  How SHOULD I be using
>> them (given either school of thought that selkik was talking about)
>
> {mi kelci vi lo tricu}
>
> Old School: I play near a tree.
> New School: I play near something, and the distance I'm from it is
> tree. (nonsense)

  Not nonsense in new school.  You just have to interpret "tree" as a
distance (it could be equal to the standard height of a tree, for
example, or where the tip of its shadow lies)



> {mi zutse zu'a lo tricu vi lo mitre}
>
> Old School: I sit to the left of a tree, a short distance from a
> meter. (nonsense)
> New School: I sit one meter to the left of a tree.

  Old school isn't nonsense.  It means a short distance from the
meter-long thing.

>
> {mi zutse zu'a vi lo mitre bu'u lo tricu}
>
> Old School: I sit a short distance to the left of a meter at a tree. (nonsense)
> New School: I sit to the left one meter from at a tree. (pretty much
> the same meaning as the last one, but allows you to rearrange the
> distance and origin)
>

  Old School: I am sitting a short distance from a meter-long thing, at a tree.

> {zu'a vi bu'u lo tricu mi zutse gi'e kelci}
>
> Old School and New School: Slightly to the left of a tree, I sit and play.

This one I think I would called the Old School nonsense. Are we AT the
tree (bu'u) or near it (vi)?
>
> {mi zutse gi'e kelci vau zu'a nu'i lo tricu la'u lo mitre}
>
> Old School: I sit and play one meter to the left of a tree.
> New School: Termsets?  What the mabla is that?!
>

  How is it acceptable to say, "I can't be bothered to read the CLL,
therefore I should not use that construct"?  People like that probably
vote (pick your favorite deprecated political party).  "Oooh... I
don't understand 'klama'.  Therefore I'll always use 'cadzu'."  Ummm..
just -- No


> .ua nai bu'o cu'i dai
>
> mu'omi'e la stela selckiku
>
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