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Re: [lojban] baby words, but general relevance: dai-like cmavo
Also, I've just seen that this thread descended into a clusterfuck
of "the CLL says X, the ma'oste says Y, usage says Z". Yay.
I have therefore linked it at
http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Section%3A+Attitudinal+Modifiers ,
for future use in my making of arbitrary decisions on this topic
which I will then impose by fiat. :D
-Robin
On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 07:42:11PM -0800, Robin Lee Powell wrote:
> It turns out that the CLL is *ambiguous* as to whether {dai} means
> "I feel it with you" or "I note you feeling it".
>
> -_-
>
> From http://dag.github.com/cll/13/10/
>
> You can of course make a bridi claim that so-and-so felt
> such-and-such an emotion, but you can also make use of the
> attitudinal system by adding the indicator “dai”, which attributes
> the preceding attitudinal to someone else — exactly whom, must be
> determined from context. You can also use “dai” conversationally
> when you empathize, or feel someone else’s emotion as if it were
> your own:
>
> So, um, *yeah*.
>
> I think I'ma go with your plan, since I think it's more used to mean
> "I feel it with you" than the other.
>
> -Robin
>
> On Tue, Nov 08, 2011 at 11:35:31AM -0600, Adam Lopresto wrote:
> > No answer for the {ko} form. But for the other, I have a very non-standard
> > solution that I think might just work: treat {dai} as a scale. (Glosses
> > below subject to all the standard rigamarole of "attitudinals aren't
> > propositions", etc; work with me here.)
> >
> > {.o'u dai [ja'ai]}: I see you're relaxed, and feel relaxed with you
> > {.o'u dai nai}: You're relaxed, but I'm not.
> > {.o'u dai cu'i}: You're relaxed. Nothing at all about how I feel is being
> > expressed here.
> >
> > I don't think {dai} as a scale has any defined meaning, but this seems
> > consistent with the standard base form, while adding useful meanings for
> > the others.
> >
> > On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 6:59 AM, Robin Lee Powell <
> > rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > OK, so there's {dai}. {.ui dai} means "you are happy, and I am also
> > > happy along with you".
> > >
> > > What I routinely find myself wanting to say to the babies is things
> > > like {.o'u [you should be feeling this]}. Something like a UI
> > > equivalent of {ko surla}, or {ko gleki}, or whatever.
> > >
> > > Obviously, I can just *say* {ko surla}, but I find myself, in the
> > > flow of Lojban, really *wanting* to use the UI cmavo for this
> > > purpose.
> > >
> > > Similarily, I also want {.oi [I see that you are feeling this; I'm
> > > not myself, but I observe it in you]}. Which, again, {za'a do
> > > dunku}, but when I'm in the flow speaking Lojban, I want a UI for
> > > it.
> > >
> > > I don't know why I have these urges, but I thought I'd throw them
> > > out in case other people feel similarily and maybe think it's worth
> > > playing with a couple of experimental cmavo for it. As usual, I
> > > probably won't be following the thread.
> > >
> > > -Robin
> > >
> > > --
> > > http://singinst.org/ : Our last, best hope for a fantastic future.
> > > Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot
> > > is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false"
> > > is "na nei". My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/
> > >
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> > >
> >
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>
> --
> http://singinst.org/ : Our last, best hope for a fantastic future.
> Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot
> is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false"
> is "na nei". My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/
>
> --
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>
>
--
http://singinst.org/ : Our last, best hope for a fantastic future.
Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot
is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false"
is "na nei". My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/
--
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