Re: [lojban] "If", da'i, and mu'ei

[Robin Lee Powell <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org>]

No, because it asserts the main bridi, which is by definition *not*
to be asserted in a subjunctive.

Both halves of a subjunctive must not be asserted; that's sort of
the point.

-Robin

On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 02:26:18PM -0500, Michael Turniansky wrote:
>   FWIW department, I use da'i in the sub-bridi, thusly:
> va'o da'i lo nu do klama kei mi klama (under the hypothetical condition of
> you going, I go)
>   Not sure if it answers your concerns better.
>                --gejyspa
> 
> On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 1:13 PM, Robin Lee Powell <
> rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote:
> 
> > They are also good for "would" and "could":
> >
> > {mi kansa klama ro ba'oi du'u mi zvafa'i le mi cutci}
> >
> > "I go with you in every future in which I find my shoes"
> >
> > "I would go with you if I found my shoes"
> >
> >
> > {mi kansa klama su'o ba'oi du'u mi zvafa'i le mi cutci}
> >
> > "I go with you in at least one future in which I find my shoes"
> >
> > "I could go with you if I found my shoes"
> >
> > There's something of a parallel here with {roi}:
> >
> > {mi kansa klama ro roi nu mi zvafa'i le mi cutci}
> >
> > "I go with you every time I find my shoes"
> >
> > and {cu'o}:
> >
> > {lo nu mi kansa klama cu pa cu'o lo nu mi zvafa'i le mi cutci}
> >
> > "I am certain to go with you when I've found my shoes"
> >
> > In fact, it may be the case that {cu'o} covers the same need, except
> > that it's timeless; the above is true for past events as well as
> > future ones.  I suppsoe you could get basically the same as the
> > {ba'oi} with {ba pa cu'o}.  Interesting.
> >
> > There's something of a refinement discussion to be had about their
> > use.  In particular:
> >
> > (1) Why du'u?  That seems really odd to me; {mi kansa klama ro ba'oi
> > nu mi zvafa'i le mi cutci} seems much more natural; "in every future
> > associated with the event of...".
> >
> > (2) Can you use it usefully as a whole-bridi tag?  {mi ro ba'oi
> > kansa klama mu'i lo nu mi zvafa'i le mi cutci}, for example?  I
> > think that muddles the subjunctivity a bit; opinions?
> >
> > -Robin
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 09:48:00AM -0500, Luke Bergen wrote:
> > > Wow, those are pretty sweet and fill a need that I've been feeling as
> > well.
> > >
> > > arpis, the tiki pages have examples and more precise definitions (
> > > http://www.lojban.org/tiki/ba%27oi and
> > http://www.lojban.org/tiki/mu%27ei)
> > > but I'll paste some here for convenience:
> > > *ro mu'ei lo'edu'u do mi jibni kei mi do darxi* "Were you (ever) to come
> > > near me, I would hit you." *
> > > **ro ba'oi lo'edu'u do mi jibni kei mi do darxi*"If you come near me, I
> > > will hit you."
> > > On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 8:43 AM, .arpis. <rpglover64+jbobau@gmail.com
> > >wrote:
> > >
> > > > Could you give an example of your {ba'oi} use, when you have a moment?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 2:03 AM, Robin Lee Powell <
> > > > rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 06:36:46PM -0800, Robin Lee Powell wrote:
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > 3.  I finally read up on mu'ei ( http://www.lojban.org/tiki/mu'ei).
> > > >> > I like it.  I think I'll start using it.
> > > >>
> > > >> Or, rather, ba'oi; {mu'ei} itself seems confusing for the
> > > >> subjunctive needs I have.
> > > >>
> > > >> -Robin
> > > >>
> > > >> --
> > > >> http://singinst.org/ :  Our last, best hope for a fantastic future.
> > > >> Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot
> > > >> is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false"
> > > >> is "na nei".   My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/
> > > >>
> > > >> --
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> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > mu'o mi'e .arpis.
> > > >
> > > >
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> >
> > --
> > http://singinst.org/ :  Our last, best hope for a fantastic future.
> > Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot
> > is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false"
> > is "na nei".   My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/
> >
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-- 
http://singinst.org/ :  Our last, best hope for a fantastic future.
Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot
is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false"
is "na nei".   My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/

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