Re: [lojban] Re: Are Natlang the best case for entropy in communication ?

[tijlan <jbotijlan@gmail.com>]

On 22 June 2012 14:21, Escape Landsome <escaaape@gmail.com> wrote:
>> If this doesn't work, then the problem isn't the language but either
>> the speaker's own vowel pronunciation or the surrounding noise itself.
>> Chances are, in such an overwhelmingly noisy environment, even your
>> "q" would be misheard as a different consonant: "aqa" as "aka", "iqi"
>> as "iji", etc.
>
> I am misunderstood.  "q" is an hypothetical new consonant.  It has
> nothing to do with guttural qâf, or any guttural, hence any "k" or
> "kh" or "q".   It is just a void symbol like "x" in algebra.

I'm not saying it has to do with those consonants. My point is: if the
listening environment was so bad that I would mishear some properly
pronounced vowel as a different vowel, I could also mishear some
properly pronounced consonant as a different consonant.


>> A simpler solution:
>>
>> : <- [ː]
>>
>> a:
>> e:
>> i:
>> o:
>> u:
>> so'a:
>> so'e:
>> so'i:
>> so'o:
>> so'u:
>> ...
>
> This does not work, nor does "VqV" either.
>
> Why ?  Because, suppose somebody mispronounces the "a" and "e" vowels.
>  This would indeed be a source of noise. What then ?   She will say
> "æ" instead of both "a" and "e".
> But then, saying "æqæ" or "æ:" instead of "æ" does not help.
>
> Thus, another kind of solution is needed !

The problem is her pronunciation. The first obvious solution is some exercise.


On 22 June 2012 15:42, Escape Landsome <escaaape@gmail.com> wrote:
> A noisy channel would not prevent somebody from understanding
> correctly : "I want nune of those", or "I wand ell of those".   But
> the same noise applied to one of the so'V words would be fatal.

- I want few of them.
- I wanted few of them.
- I want a few of them.
- I wanna feud over them.
- I won't feud over them.

More examples can be found in YouTube's automatic transcription:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LifOwlzugbk

Turn on the CC button for the computer-generated subtitle, which is
supposed to represent the human speech as objectively heard. Note
where "when our economy was improving" is misheard as "when are
condoms improving" at 0:30, which I don't think is less fatal than
{so'o} being mistaken for {so'u}.


mu'o

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