Re: [lojban] Re: jbonunsla 2012: Post #2

[Jacob Errington <nictytan@gmail.com>]

coi

On 8 July 2012 08:44, selpa'i <seladwa@gmx.de> wrote:
> coi
> If you don't mind, I'd like to comment on each point, knowing well that a
> lot comes down to opinion:
>
> Am 08.07.2012 09:44, schrieb la .lindar.:
>
>> >From my notes (brief summary to be expanded perhaps never):
>>
>> {tolcliva} is crap and you pretty much should never use it.
>
>
> How is it crap? Is this just your (sg.) opinion or did you (pl.) come to an
> agreement about it? You gotta be more specific than "it's crap, you can't
> use it". Both tolcliva and mo'u klama / klamu'o have their place.
>
>
>> Agree to disagree on (or attempt to deprecate, or just say 'fuck it'
>> regarding) the weird vowel letterals.
>
>
> Some people don't like them, but I find them prettier than .a'y .e'y .i'y
> .o'y .u'y. The obvious disadvantage is that .abu is two words so zo can't
> quote it.
>
>
>> Agree to disagree on whether time can be {clani} or {barda}.
>
>
> Time can be clani. Time has a dimension and anything with a dimension can be
> long or short in that dimension.
>
>

In my opinion, the problem with saying that time can be clani is that
you're saying that all events can by clani, by virtue of time simply
being events; why is it that using clani would only reflect the
temporal dimension rather than any of the other three dimensions of an
event? In particular, {ze'a lo clani} is essentially the same as {ze'a
lo fasnu poi clani}. Now yes, {clani} carries the implication that the
object (or event in this case) is relatively long it its longest
dimension. If we could compare the temporal dimension with the spatial
dimensions, we could probably derive some kind of logic allowing us to
discern whether or not that longest dimension is the temporal one or
not, but it seems like we can justify current usage (stuff like {ze'u
lo clani}) by saying that the longest dimension of an event is
implicitly its temporal dimension. That however has the annoying side
effect of making it impossible to refer to one of the spatial
dimensions.

One interpretation of {citno} is that it simply refers to events,
rather than to the "duration of objects" which doesn't make very much
sense. Let me get this straight: I'm not invalidating {do citno}. I'm
just saying that if we peek at the definition, it says "[relatively
short in elapsed duration]" which seems like an extremely important
characteristic. Maybe we can use citno to get at that temporal tordu
and laldo/tolci'o to refer to that temporal clani.

>> We solved the "units per unit" issue with {dikni}, but may still have
>> other issues.
>
>
> What's the proposed solution?
>
>
>> Kill with fire all of the 'by standard' places in favour of a BAI that
>> does the same thing.
>
>
> I strongly disagree. There are a good number of "by standard" places that
> are used a lot, and I don't want to use BAI to get access to them. xamgu3
> and dukse3 are two very common examples.
>
>
>> Stuff we need to discuss tomorrow:
>
> One thing you might want to look at is how some gismu have built-in jai
> while others don't.
> Compare for example bebna, which has a jai'd x1 where the x2 is basically a
> fai-place, and fenki, which doesn't. This inconsistency slows down the
> learning process to some degree. Does anybody else think this could be
> improved?
>
>
>> latro'a/tsani's idea of how {ka} works.
>> JVS sucks hairy balls (I'll get into more detail)
>
> It has some bugs, but it's free and works. Sure it could be better, but I
> wouldn't be so harsh.
>
>
> mu'o mi'e la selpa'i
>
> --
> .i pau mi me ma .i pa mai ko mi jungau la'e di'u
> .i ba bo mi va'o lo nu nelci lo nu me ma kau cu barkla
> .i va'o lo nu na nelci cu denpa ti lo nu mi drata
>
>
>
>
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