Re: [lojban] modals inside description sumti (za'e "internal-modals") question

[selpa'i <seladwa@gmx.de>]

Am 17.08.2012 23:21, schrieb sunderland:
> Forgive me if this question is super obvious or misguided:

Any question is worth being asked.

> FAhA as a tense goes into {lo} as part of the selbri (I think): {lo 
> zu'a zarci}, "store to the left". But what about FAhA as a modal, 
> i.e., "store to the left of the school"?

Any TAG (TAG is the pseudo-selma'o for all sumtcita, like tenses and BAI 
and FAhA) can be between the lo and the sumti.
You can use FAhA as modal tags too:

    lo zarci be zu'a lo ckule
    "the store to the left of the school"

> - You could use a relative clause with the full gismu (but not all 
> FAhA get a gismu).
> {lo zarci poi zunle lo ckule}

All FAhA (and all other sumtcita) can be expressed using fi'o + some selbri.
{lo zarci poi zunle lo ckule} is fine.

> - You could do a couple of awful conversions (can {jai} can even take 
> FAhA instead of BAI?).
> {lo sejaizu'ase zarci be lo ckule}

jai works on any TAG. But I agree that that's an awful construct.
I don't think that's a good idea.

> ==> Is there a straightforward way to put a modal phrase into a 
> description sumti? (How do you do za'e "internal-modals"?)

There is:
lo pe TAG SUMTI SELBRI
lo pe bai ko'a broda  (<-- in a more lojbanic form)

> Somewhat relatedly, I was also wondering, are the following grammatical?
> 1.  {zu'a lo ckule [ku] cu zarci}

Yes, that's grammatical.

> 2.  {lo mu'i tavla}

That too, but only as long as the modal is empty. Otherwise use the 
construct I showed above.

> In other words, can {cu} separate the selbri from a modal phrase 
> (something other than leading sumti)? 1. is technically an observative 
> (I think) after all. Secondly, is BAI considered part of the selbri 
> when it's used like a tense?

As long as there is a term before the cu, it's fine. A term is any of 
the following:
{SUMTI, TAG SUMTI, TAG ku, NA ku}. So yes, you can do that.

mu'o mi'e la selpa'i

--
pilno zo le xu .i lo dei bangu cu se cmene zo lojbo .e nai zo lejbo

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