Re: [lojban] modals inside description sumti (za'e "internal-modals") question

[Pierre Abbat <phma@phma.optus.nu>]

On Friday 17 August 2012 17:21:21 sunderland wrote:
> Forgive me if this question is super obvious or misguided:
>
> FAhA as a tense goes into {lo} as part of the selbri (I think): {lo zu'a
> zarci}, "store to the left". But what about FAhA as a modal, i.e., "store
> to the left of the school"?

Selpa'i's answer, "lo zarci be zu'a lo ckule", is good; it's what I'd say.

This term "modal" is at odds with its meaning in linguistics, which is words 
like "ka'e" and "nu'o". There are two kinds of prepositions in Lojban: those 
that are derived from brivla, are inherently prepositions, and can be 
converted with SE; and tense markers used as prepositions. The former are 
what the Book calls "modals". "zu'a" is a spatial tense marker. The 
dictionary may define it using "fi'o", but it's not an exact equivalent.

> In other words, can {cu} separate the selbri from a modal phrase (something
> other than leading sumti)? 1. is technically an observative (I think) after
> all. Secondly, is BAI considered part of the selbri when it's used like a
> tense?

You can't use BAI as a tense. It's a proper preposition; if you put it just 
before the selbri, it adds a place to the predicate and leaves it unfilled.

A string of tense markers just before a selbri is grammatical:
pu be'a sanli
But a string of prepositions including BAI is not:
*ca gau farvi
*gau ca farvi
ca farvi gau
gau ku ca farvi
*bai ta'i zbasu
bai zbasu ta'i

mu'omi'e .pier.

-- 
I believe in Yellow when I'm in Sweden and in Black when I'm in Wales.

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