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Re: [lojban] Re: lo selsanga pe la'o dy. Bodo Wartke .dy zi'e po'u la'o dy. Liebeslied .dy
Am 14.09.2012 22:52, schrieb Michael Turniansky:
Well, of course, I haven't seen the debate yet (still being more
than 3 weeks behind on email) and therefore don't know if you've
already addressed the following question,
It happened long ago, I can't remember when exactly, but it's been
almost a year, but at least half a year.
but EVEN IF I accept arguendo your statement that "ua" is a CV
(although I don't), then you must ALSO assert that "iu" is a CV.
Yes, iu is CV (bearing though that this C is not the same type of C that
is used to create brivla clusters under the current rules. changing this
would in theory be possible however, which would cause things like bioka
to be CCVCV brivla. not currently the case, however.)
So how do you distinguish between "iu isai..." and "i ui sai..." if
all the person put down (as here) was "iuisai..."?
The problem here is because it is technically accepted to elide denpa bu
when a space is present, people aren't sure when denpa bu is actually
necessary and when it isn't. It also makes people confused about what
the point of the letter is. I encourage to always include all denpa bu
that are necessary and to elide all that can be elided if one so wishes.
If you write down "iu isai" then that becomes {iu .i sai}. If you write
it down without spaces, which is the more interesting case and more
closely resembles the actual speechstream, then you have to make sure
the automatic initial denpa bu that people are using does what you want
it to do. {iuisai} would become {.i ui sai} if you allow denpa bu to be
elided. If not, it would be ungrammatical (because after iu, the next i
is not a lojban word and it fails to parse).
(And let's not forget that plenty of combinations like "iau" are valid
in names and fu'ivla and are different than "i au and ia u" The
pauses need to be present to distinguish, or there has to be an
unambiguous rule of decomposition, which I don't believe there can be,
but I will wait further commenting upon my reading of what youve
already written onthe topic.
There is indeed such a rule of decomposition and only because it exists
can I in good conscience preach this. You just need to be aware that the
semi-vowels are not vowels, they are [w] and [j] in IPA respectively. If
you consider speechstreams, then those are distinct from the actual
Lojban vowels (V). "iua" is only possible in cmevla and zi'evla. A cmavo
can't have three VVV in a row, so the cmavo clusters always decompose
unambiguously. If I didn't answer all your questions, please feel free
to through more questions or tests at me.
mu'o mi'e la selpa'i
--
pilno zo le xu .i lo dei bangu cu se cmene zo lojbo .e nai zo lejbo
doị mèlbi mlenì'u
.i do càtlu ki'u
ma fe la xàmpre ŭu
.i do tìnsa càrmi
gi'e sìrji se tàrmi
.i taị bo pu cìtka lo gràna ku
--
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