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Re: [lojban] Re: A new Lojbanic wiki (LMW). On the threshold of the 25th anniversary of Lojban
Interesting,
how do you interpret this? I think you divided the pages into
chunks and then went through each chunk to classify them into
these ~4 categories, but to what purpose? What conclusion is
there to draw?
-Alan
On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 03:00:36PM -0800, entot wrote:
> On Friday, November 16, 2012 6:40:04 AM UTC+9, vruxir wrote:
>
> Here's what I've learned about the current Tiki Wiki: it has 2,363
> articles. You can see a full list of them
> here: [1]http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-listpages.php
>
>
> Here's a rough categorization of around 1,200 of the TWiki pages.
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqPDUjCrM_cfdDI5NzBIMzhCRHZJWGF2Tzl4R245N3c#gid=2
> It lists all the pages (2,357 of them) at the time of the creation of the
> spreadsheet, which was one or two months ago. So it lacks those 6 pages
> that were created since then.
> Pages in a language other than English or Lojban are categorized as "wiki
> translation."
> mu'o
>
> On Friday, November 16, 2012 6:40:04 AM UTC+9, vruxir wrote:
>
> Here's what I've learned about the current Tiki Wiki: it has 2,363
> articles. You can see a full list of them
> here: [2]http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-listpages.php
> What I can't seem to do is get a full "dump" (export) of the articles.
> It might be that the feature isn't turned on by the administrator.
> Instructions for doing so are
> here: [3]http://doc.tiki.org/Wiki+Config#Dumps
> There is a python script
> ([4]http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:TikiWiki_Conversion) which
> converts TikiWiki dumps to MediaWiki XML files. It requires the dumped
> .tar file; also requires MySQL access to the Tiki server to "create an
> XML dump of the metadata for the Tiki images". The instructions for
> doing so are on the page linked in this paragraph.
> Now that I've fooled with the MediaWiki translate feature a little bit,
> I see that it is kind of finicky, and it defaults to English, and that,
> for example, "ralju_ckupau/en" means the same thing as "ralju_ckupau"
> (except that the article title does not depend exclusively on the URL in
> the "/en" version).
> One (possible) problem with the translation tool is that it seems like
> you have to define the structure of the page in English (or the default
> language) before you can create a translation. You can divide the page
> into a number of "chunks" ("messages") to be translated, or you can
> probably make the whole page be a single "chunk". How many "chunks" you
> define determines how well you can monitor the quality of translations.
> A nastier problem is that the Tiki Wiki pages are in many languages;
> some are all English, others all Lojban, others (such as discussion
> pages and self-introduction pages) may be in more than one language. The
> primary language of a Tiki article is optionally marked, but usually it
> is not marked. So, when importing all those Tiki articles into a
> MediaWiki framework, they might all have to be temporarily dumped into
> the default language namespace, then marked with a tag saying "This
> article was uploaded from the old Tiki Wiki and is marked as being
> (Lojban/English/Whatever the default is). If the language of this
> article is different, please move it to the appropriate namespace."
> But moving the article to the appropriate language might not be
> straightforward... I'll have to mess around with it and see. I'm still
> not clear on whether you can base an article in a language other than
> the default, and ensure that the original article (in whatever language)
> is the basis for other translations.
> mu'o mi'e vruxir
> On Thursday, November 15, 2012 3:19:58 PM UTC-5, entot wrote:
>
> I like the idea of adding a {{cleanup}} template too.
> Now I'm leaning towards the option of importing all pages.
> On Wednesday, November 14, 2012 3:03:00 AM UTC+9, .alyn.post. wrote:
>
> I'm 100% onboard with improving the user experience of our wiki: I
> find the TWiki frustrating in that regard too. I'm not certain
> what
> tools mediawiki gives us to mitigate this problem: it's a function
> of the content rather than the platform [snip]
>
> I argue that having a familiar-looking interface itself is an
> improvement to the user experience. Also a better editing
> experience, which I think MediaWiki offers over TWiki,
> facilitates better content organization.
> mu'o
> On Wednesday, November 14, 2012 4:47:05 AM UTC+9, .alyn.post. wrote:
>
> I like the suggestion of a {{cleanup}} template. I've been working
> on general workflow templates over at OpenCog:
>
> [5]http://wiki.opencog.org/w/Curation
>
> And they are similar to this idea. You can mark a page as a
> {{stub}}, mark it as work in progress ({{WIP}})* write it until
> it's a {{proposal}}, and then {{withdraw}} it if it's a bad idea
> or tag it with a {{version}} if it becomes a feature. Later work
> may cause it to be {{obsolete}} and if you don't keep it in sync
> it might get {{out of date}}.
>
> These templates also take care to register the pages in the
> appropriate namespaces, so a curator can see which pages are in
> which categories. I like workflow processes like this because any
> effort has a 'long tail' of incomplete, partial, bad, and promising
> ideas that don't quite fit into the existing structure of the wiki.
>
> mi'e .alyn.
>
> * = adding that is on my list, it doesn't exist yet.
>
> On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 11:29:43AM -0800, vruxir wrote:
> > I'm of the opinion that it would benefit a future Wiki if it
> has imported
> > ALL the contents from the TWiki. If that can be done
> automatically, then
> > hopefully there's also a way to automatically place a "Cleanup"
> box at the
> > top of each imported article, saying something to the effect
> of:
> > "This article was imported from the old [6]lojban.org Tiki Wiki
> and may not
> > meet the content and style guidelines of this Wiki. Please see
> our
> > _content and style guidelines_ and clean up this article. If
> you feel that
> > the article is named inappropriately, the article can be moved
> to a new
> > name. Do not remove this tag until the article is up to
> standards."
> > Then you'll want to have some content and style guidelines,
> probably
> > inspired by Wikipedia or other successful Wikis.
> > (When you move an article to a new name, the old name becomes a
> redirect;
> > if you replace the old name with a new article, you can insert
> tags at the
> > top of the article with suggestions to visit the moved article.
> See, for
> > example, the top of the article
> [1][7]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation
> > )
> > If there is a debate about what a word really MEANS, then I
> would think
> > the article about that word needs to report the differing
> viewpoints
> > (including CLL's viewpoint) and what level of support the
> viewpoints
> > have. Then the actual continuing debate over the meaning of the
> word could
> > go in the Discussion tab, OR if it's possible to create another
> tab with a
> > more appropriate name (e.g. "Grammar Debate"), do that and
> leave the
> > Discussion tab for talking about the quality of the article
> itself.
> > By importing all the TWiki content to the new Wiki (and marking
> them all
> > for "cleanup"), you can safely redirect people from the TWiki
> to the new
> > Wiki if/when it has been demonstrated that the new Wiki is
> superior, and
> > you don't have to worry about losing important discussions.
> > mu'o mi'e vruxir
> > On Tuesday, November 13, 2012 12:16:51 PM UTC-5, .alyn.post.
> wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 04:21:14AM -0800, la gleki wrote:
> > > * We're making a fresh start, so why not keep it
> clean?
> >
> > To be contrary a moment,
> >
> > I've put a lot of work in writing and organizing TWiki pages.
> I'm
> > happy to have them migrated to mediawiki, but I'm
> more-or-less being
> > told that the work I've done on TWiki isn't valuable ("fresh
> start").
> > Any work I would do on the new wiki would need to
> access/refer to/
> > modify the pages I have worked on than are in TWiki.
> >
> > I'd love to have them imported to Mediawiki, but as things
> stand I feel
> > like work I've put into the wiki is more-or-less being
> deleted (you can
> > call it archiving if you want) and I'm wondering what the
> heck I would
> > be expected to do with the new wiki when all the content I
> want to work
> > on is in the old wiki.
> >
> > mi'e .alyn.
> > --
> > .i ma'a lo bradi cu penmi gi'e du
> >
> > --
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> >
> > References
> >
> > Visible links
> > 1. [10]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation
> > 2. [11]https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/01evXYCxTw8J
>
> --
> .i ma'a lo bradi cu penmi gi'e du
>
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> [12]https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/ePyF4rRxbBMJ.
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>
> References
>
> Visible links
> 1. http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-listpages.php
> 2. http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-listpages.php
> 3. http://doc.tiki.org/Wiki+Config#Dumps
> 4. http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:TikiWiki_Conversion
> 5. http://wiki.opencog.org/w/Curation
> 6. http://lojban.org/
> 7. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation
> 8. https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/01evXYCxTw8J
> 9. http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en
> 10. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation
> 11. https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/01evXYCxTw8J
> 12. https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/-/ePyF4rRxbBMJ
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.i ma'a lo bradi cu penmi gi'e du
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