Re: [lojban] Re: A new Lojbanic wiki (LMW). On the threshold of the 25th anniversary of Lojban

[Marc Laporte <marclaporte@gmail.com>]

Hi!

I am a project admin for Tiki and I'd like to share some information.

1- On this list, some refer to Twiki and some to Tiki. These are two distinct projects.
Tiki Wiki CMS Groupware (or just Tiki) is in PHP  http://tiki.org
Twiki is in Perl   http://twiki.org

It's important that you know this, so if you do some research and comparison, you'll be looking at the right tool.


2- Changing tools takes time & energy and data is lost. What features are you missing in Tiki?

Tiki has been for several years now, the Free and Open Source Web Application with the most built-in features
http://tiki.org/FOSS+Web+Application+with+the+most+built-in+features

Let
 me repeat that to be very clear. Of all the web applications in the 
World, Tiki is the FOSS web app with the most built-in features. Chances
 are, what you need/want is just a checkbox away. You can use for much 
more than just a wiki but everything to do with the community (forums, 
blog, calendar, issue/task tracker, etc.)

2a) "I can't embed 
pictures on tiki pages like on MediaWiki" -> embedding pictures 
exists, just need to activate. All wikis handle pictures!  And coming to
 Tiki10 (now in Alpha): the World's first full-featured both Open Source
 and Web-based screencasting solution: http://doc.tiki.org/Screencast   
Not only can it take a snapshot of your desktop, you can even draw on 
the image, or even record your screen with audio!   Having audio 
recordings of Lojban terms in wiki pages would be cool, no?

2b) "MediaWiki seems to provide better editing support and, most importantly, a place to shove all of our discussions"

Tiki has:
http://doc.tiki.org/Comments
http://doc.tiki.org/Inline+comments

Please let me know what better editing support you need.

The
 wiki toolbar (with buttons for bold, italic, etc.) is not activated on 
lojban.org    Go try demo.tiki.org to see what it's like normally.
http://doc.tiki.org/Toolbar

2c) "fresh start"

Tiki
 has a powerful category system. You could categorize all pages, and 
from the category, have a different theme or permissions. So eventually,
 old pages can be kept but not visible by anonymous users.
http://doc.tiki.org/Category

This permits a fresh start without the risk of duplicating data. 

3- Tiki has superb multilingual handling. It's all detailed here:
http://wiki-translation.com/tiki-download_wiki_attachment.php?attId=55&download=y

I challenge anyone to find a more advanced system. I presented several times, including at the latest WikiMania:
https://wikimania2012.wikimedia.org/wiki/Submissions/Cross-lingual_Wiki_Engine

No
 one has anything like this. Wikipedia has a different instance for each
 language. This makes it difficult to do content tracking, although they
 have a system to track the corresponding page-link in the other 
language. But this means that you need to add a new MediaWiki instance 
for each language. In Tiki, you just add a page, and no extra work is 
needed to add a new language.

4- Here is an example of a community than went from MediaWiki to Tiki, to have more features:
http://www.ogre3d.org/tikiwiki/Ogre+Wiki+Help

Not
 only is Tiki the web app with the most built-in features, no other 
major CMS / Web app has released more major versions in the last 4 year:
* 2009-05: http://doc.tiki.org/Tiki3 LTS
* 2009-11: http://doc.tiki.org/Tiki4
* 2010-06: http://doc.tiki.org/Tiki5
* 2010-11: http://doc.tiki.org/Tiki6 LTS
* 2011-06: http://doc.tiki.org/Tiki7
* 2011-11: http://doc.tiki.org/Tiki8
* 2012-06: http://doc.tiki.org/Tiki9 LTS
* 2012-11: http://doc.tiki.org/Tiki10 (in alpha at the moment)

To
 be fair, WordPress also had 8 major releases during the same 
approximative time frame (http://wordpress.org/about/roadmap/). More 
recently than Tiki, Typo3 and Joomla! have moved to a 6-month release 
cycle. But in all these cases, with their extension-based model, not all
 features are ready at the same time. And sometimes, extensions are 
never ported to the next version. Thanks to the Tiki model, we have 
inherent synchronized releases
http://tiki.org/Model#Inherent_synchronized_releases

With
 over 50% of browser usage on the rapid release cycle (Chrome and 
Firefox), it makes perfect sense for web applications to have a rapid 
release cycle as well. Tiki is well positioned to take advantage of all 
the innovations! However, some people are happy with the current feature
 set, and Long Term Support (LTS) versions were introduced in 2009, and 
more recently, we doubled the support period: 
http://info.tiki.org/Version+Lifecycle

Tiki turned 10 years old last month
http://info.tiki.org/article201-A-Decade-of-Tiki

Tiki reached 500 contributors with commit access (top project on SourceForge.net)
http://info.tiki.org/article188-Tiki-reaches-500-contributors-with-commit-access
     Listen to the podcast!

Tiki Passed 1 Million Downloads
http://info.tiki.org/article192-Tiki-Passes-1-Million-Downloads

Tiki wins People's Choice: Best Free CMS of the CMS Critic's awards
https://info.tiki.org/article206-Tiki-wins-People-s-Choice-Best-Free-CMS

Tiki was named best "Best Web Tool" by WebHostingSearch.com
http://info.tiki.org/article197-Tiki-Named-Best-Web-Tool

And for previous news, see 2011 Year in Review:
http://info.tiki.org/article181-2011-Year-in-Review

I think you'll agree: it's pretty impressive!

And Tiki has features that MediaWiki will never have.

There is also the Interactive Translation feature: http://doc.tiki.org/Interactive+Translation
This
 permits web-based, in-context translations of the interface. So 
community members can translate not only the content but also the app to
 Lojban!

So I suggest:

1- Make a list of what you want
2- Upgrade Tiki to latest version  (your version seems to be 2 years old)
3- Then, decide to keep or change.

Best regards,

M ;-)

PS. Below is a copy-paste of a generic list of Top Reasons to Use Tiki:

1. A confident and future-proof choice :
   • Over a million downloads and counting
   • Tiki has been nominated for, and received, several awards
   • Uses top-notch Underlying technologies:
     • PHP scripting language
     • MySQL or MariaDB database
     • Smarty template engine
     • jQuery _javascript_ library
     • Zend Framework
2. A vibrant community
   • IRC chat room, discussion forums, documentation, etc.
   • If you want hired help, or want to offer services, there is a Tiki Service Provider program
   • Tiki is a community recursively building a community management system, which is called Dogfooding
3. Tons of features:
   • Over 1,500 unique features/options making it the Free and Open Source Web Application with the most built-in features
   • Ideal for most use cases, such as Collaboration, Publishing, Commerce, Social networking, Office productivity tools, E-learning, etc.
   • Has the breadth and depth to most likely address your specific needs as it has been developed through the collaborative work of hundreds of contributors for over 10 years.
4. Features are built-in
   • No need to research, choose, download and install additional modules/extensions/plugins: There is no feature duplication. All the features are built-in, collaboratively maintained by the community, so you avoid the pain of abandoned modules/plugins/extensions.
   • Everything works with everything: The whole community collaborates on the features instead of having modules/extensions/plugins which may have incompatibilities. Turn everything on and it will work. Try that with modules/extensions/plugins!
   • Quick timely upgrades: When a new version of Tiki comes out, you can upgrade right away and all the features are available.
5. Interoperable:
   • Can run on any Operating System (Windows, Mac or Linux)
   • Works with any browser
   • Interoperability with a very large number of online services, complementary software, technologies and standards.
6. Open Collaboration: If you need a new feature, join the community and let's work together. If you are a developer, check out How to get commit access
7. Innovation: For the latest and greatest and quick access to new features, use the rapid release cycle, with 2 new major releases per year. No other major web applications has had more major releases since 2008. On average, developers update the code (with new features and fixes) over a dozen times every day.
8. Stability: For a super stable system with very few changes: Use the Long Term Support (LTS) versions, which is supported for 3.5 years.
9. Easy install: You can use the 1-click installers. All the features, languages, etc. are available in the basic install.
10. Easy to configure : All features/options are activated from the web-based control panel.
11. Adaptable: By default, only a small number of basic, commonly-used features appear in the control panel. As your needs grow, you can also display advanced and experimental features/options.
12. Easy upgrades: Upgrade from any past version to any supported version in one step. (so you can upgrade from 2.x to 15.x)
    • No need to deal with diverse release dates of core software vs modules/plugins/extensions
13. No lock-in: Community supported, no single vendor.
14. Free: free & open source software, licensed as LGPL.

On Friday, 16 November 2012 01:25:53 UTC-5, iesk  wrote:

How about
- not using a translation extension;
- setting the default (= menu display and so on) language to Lojban (logged in users may be able to change it for themselves);
- letting everybody write in what language(s) (s)he prefers;
- using tags ('categories'?) like 'eng', 'deu', 'jbo', ... whatever;
- preparing templates like 'This is a translation of [[bla]].' or 'Cf. [[corresponding page]] in [[language]].' to be used where seen fit?

A bit chaotic perhaps, but less demanding for users/editors, I believe.

-iesk

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