Re: [lojban] navni notes

You're right, of course, it does. I had quite forgotten that kliru and sodna don't just refer to chlorine and sodium respectively. I was wrong, and navni should be properly understood to be noble gasses exclusively, and the definition amended to reflect that. Although I still stand by my original assertion, that square brackets aren't meant to be exhaustive lists, you could add helium to the list if it really bothers you.

--gejyspa

On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 4:52 PM, Jacob Errington <nictytan@gmail.com> wrote:

The thing is, Lojban *does* have a gismu for alkali metals and halogens. With that in mind, there *should* be a gismu for noble gases (not simply "inert ones", which would exclude xenon). Seeing as {navni} has such little use, there's no problem in clarifying its definition to simply refer to any noble gas.

As for actinids and lanthanids, I considered this problem before and created the following fu'i/zi'evla:

(saskrx)aktismi
(saskr)lantismi

The -smi ending comes from {simsa}, to parallel the use of -id. I haven't determined an adequate full place structure.

.i mi'e la tsani mu'o

On 29 November 2012 15:11, Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:

But again, lojban doesn't necessarily divide up the world in the same way as any other given schema/language does, for good or ill. Since you specifically want to ask about the periodic table, we can questions like, "why isn't there a gismu for the lanthanides, or the actinides, haolgens, or heck, even 'radioactive'?" jinme includes alloys, etc. We have a word, ratni, that can used to specify elemental compunds. But again, we're talking about a language that (at least on a gismu level) differentiates between rats and mice, but doesn't even have a word for "rodent". That classes worms and mollusks together, lumps tigers and cheetahs and panthers (but not lions get their won), etc.

--geyspa

On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 2:07 PM, Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com> wrote:

That seems significantly less useful than having a term for "noble gases", especially since nitrogen is actually not as inert as everyone intuitively thinks--under very high pressure, gas tanks for human breathing need to use noble gases rather than nitrogen, because under sufficient pressure diatomic nitrogen begins reacting with our tissues.

mu'o mi'e la latro'a

On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 10:33 AM, Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:

Except that "navni" officially refers to "inert gasses", not "noble gasses" Therefore, they are not necessarily elemental, and also nitrogen would actually likely be included, despite the fact that it has its own specific gismu, as well as stuff like http://www.conceptfire-uk.com/products/inert-gas-ig55-inergen-ig541/
--gejyspa

On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 6:35 PM, Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com> wrote:

Given that all the other ones were included, its exclusion feels deliberate at a glance.

mu'o mi'e la latro'a

On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 10:15 AM, Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:

Who says helium is not a navni? It most certainly is. It's solnavni. Lists of things in square brackets in definitions are not intended to be exhaustive, if that's what led you to that conclusion.
--gejyspa

On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 8:10 PM, Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com> wrote:

Apparently the default type of navni is neon, and helium is not a type of navni. Why are either of these the case?

mu'o mi'e la latro'a

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