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Re: [lojban] Comments inside quotations. {lu ... [sei ...se'u] ... li'u}. No solution?



On 24 December 2012 11:54, la gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:
{sei ... se'u} inside  {lu ...li'u} must be a part of the quote however xorxe's Alice in Wonderland uses that to translate quotes split into several parts. I'm not the only person who thinks that this is wrong.
IMO {sei} has at least three different meanings.

1. As an alternative to UI ({sei mi gleki ~= .ui})
2. As an alternative to moving the outer bridi into the inner bridi ({do melbi sei mi jinvi}={mi jinvi lo du'u do melbi})
3. To translate partitioned quotations.

All of these meanings are actually the same. In every case, it's "meaning #2".
{.i do melbi sei mi cusku} -> {.i mi cusku lo se du'u do melbi}
{.i ui do cinba mi} -> {.i sei mi gleki do cinba mi} -> {.i mi gleki lo nu do cinba mi}

Personally, I disapprove of sei-within-lu for partitioned quotes, for the simple reason that one can't unambiguously determine whether the sei-clause is actually spoken, unless {sa'a} is used (which it usually isn't).
 

Some time ago i proposed {xoi} to replace the second meaning of {sei}. And now here is my solution for the third meaning.


Replacing any meanings of sei with another word is unnecessary because {sei} only really has one meaning.
 
Proposal.
The same FA two times in a bridi should mean {je} according i.e.
{fe lo barda ku mi pu viska fe lo gerku}={mi pu viska lo barda je gerku}.


This system seems inconsistent: a sumti operation, namely the use of FA, causes a selbri effect.
 
Needless to say that "it's a big dog" is rather {ko'a barda je gerku} rather than {ko'a barda gerku} as natlangish tanru i.e. metaphors i.e. noun phrases with adjectives are not necessary in a logical style of lojban.

Now such proposal allows us to express divided quotations

xorxe's solution: {lu ko klama mi sei la alis cu cusku se'u i mi djica lo nu catlu do li'u} (25 syllables)
gleki's solution:  {lu ko klama mi li'u se cusku la alis fa lu i mi djica lo nu catlu do li'u} (26 syllables)


As I mentioned  above, where's the {je} ? What selbri is it connecting? Furthermore, if double-FA should have some connective implication, it should certainly not be a logical connective. I propose something far more vague, like {ju'e}.
 
.i mi'e la tsani mu'o

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