Re: [lojban] Re: Noun-ness of {vindu}

On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 10:57 AM, Adam Lopresto <adamlopresto@gmail.com> wrote:

Making a word usable for more situations doesn't necessarily make it more useful. It just changes the meaning, rather drastically. There may be a place for the predicate you're looking for, but {vindu} has a short, simple meaning. I can say {.e'unai vindu} and that says all you need to say. With your "x1 is actively affecting the biochemistry of x2 with effects x3" meaning, we'd need to graft on a {xlali} and a {kakne} to get there.

If you want to say that someone is actually experiencing the poison, use {bilma}. I do think there's room for the symptoms in vindu3, though. But I don't want to see the word broadened to such a point that it could mean anything, but to actually mean anything specific, you'd need a paragraph.

Assuming a new word is necessary for the meaning desired, it's always better to create a new word, e.g., vi'indu, and let the old stand as is. Then if the new word is more useful and used more often, then the old word will fade away.

I am all in favor of small changes, such as making argument places consistent, which I regard as a fix, but changing "vindu" in the way described is not a fix, but a general change to a word that's not broken.

stevo

On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 2:37 PM, Jacob Errington <nictytan@gmail.com> wrote:

On 21 March 2013 11:55, John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com> wrote:

"Intoxicate", while technically correct, gives a rather the wrong impression. Generally, intoxication is thought of as a relatively pleasant experience, a high, not (except, perhaps, in the very long run) a dangerous one.

I think that I talk about that... Ah yes, I do. "Furthermore, {vindu} as defined makes it seem to have an unnecessarily negative connotation. I feel that this word could be far more useful and flexible if made a bit more general, along the lines of "x1 is a substance/chemical unnaturally present/not normally in such levels in x2 with effects x3."

>{vindu} is pretty clearly meant to refer to something dangerous in the short run and thoroughly unpleasant, hence both "poison" and "venomous" and, indeed, "toxic" -- yew leaves, say. I'd stick with "poison" in the English.

By putting a negative effect in the x3 I suggest, we end up with old-vindu. If we put in a positive effect, we can create meanings such as "high" or "drunk".

Overall, making vindu more "active" and by adding in an x3, the word is far more useful.

.i mi'e la tsani mu'o