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Re: [lojban] Re: Noun-ness of {vindu}



On 22 March 2013 10:57, Adam Lopresto <adamlopresto@gmail.com> wrote:
Making a word usable for more situations doesn't necessarily make it more useful. It just changes the meaning, rather drastically. There may be a place for the predicate you're looking for, but {vindu} has a short, simple meaning. I can say {.e'unai vindu} and that says all you need to say. With your "x1 is actively affecting the biochemistry of x2 with effects x3" meaning, we'd need to graft on a {xlali} and a {kakne} to get there.


Or let vagueness do the work for you, which is what we typically do. All past uses of {vindu} can be understood from context as have "bad" in the vindu3 and having implicit ka'e. This change would not break usage and would provide with a word that is so ridiculously more useful. At last, we can make a work for "drunk" in the chemical sense, rather than {xalbebna}, which isn't even jvajvo.
 
la xalbo cu cusku di'e
If you want to say that someone is actually experiencing the poison, use {bilma}. I do think there's room for the symptoms in vindu3, though. But I don't want to see the word broadened to such a point that it could mean anything, but to actually mean anything specific, you'd need a paragraph.

You seem to contradict yourself here. To say that someone is actually experiencing the poison, we need a paragraph, if we follow your suggestion of using {bilma}. Anyway,  "a paragraph" is such a huge exaggeration of what this change would do. Rather than make a word so unnecessarily specific such as vindu as it is now, making it broader will allow for more expressivity.

.i la stivos cu cusku di'e
Assuming a new word is necessary for the meaning desired, it's always better to create a new word, e.g., vi'indu, and let the old stand as is. Then if the new word is more useful and used more often, then the old word will fade away. 
I am all in favor of small changes, such as making argument places consistent, which I regard as a fix, but changing "vindu" in the way described is not a fix, but a general change to a word that's not broken.  

Making an entirely new word, such as a zi'evla, defeats the purpose of even having such broad words. Broad words are great *for lujvo*, which are a mess to produce out of anything that doesn't have a rafsi, namely zi'evla. Also, context is everything, as we time and time again prove by even *speaking* in #lojban. 

*Precise* words should be zi'evla, as compounding them further becomes less interesting as their precision increases.

.i mi'e la tsani mu'o

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