Re: Robin does the xorban (was Re: [lojban] Baby Words: "you're right" and orders.)

[la gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>]

On Wednesday, May 1, 2013 8:32:03 PM UTC+4, lojbab wrote:
> .arpis. wrote:
> > Are constraint (e'i) and obligation (ei) such different concepts that we
> > want two separate short words for them, especially at the expense of
> > having a short way to be explicit about commands?

I just wanted to say "I had to create certain corrections in order to fulfill the task"

and "I should have done this earlier".

I hadn't have any problems with translations before changing the meaning of {e'i} was proposed.

Hey, may be create another word?

> They certainly are different emotionally, and we are talking about words 
> expressing emotional affect.
>
> I do many things out of a feeling of obligation that I do not in fact 
> feel constrained/compelled to do.
>
> More importantly, a command is not really an emotional affect.  Perhaps 
> "feeling in authority" would be an emotional affect that might mark 
> something as a command, but that is probably the ga'i that Robin found 
> unsatisfying (per his original post on the topic).  koga'i would seem to 
> me to mean "do it, because >I< said so".
>
> Myself, I've always considered that an unmarked ko is a command, which 
> is where ".e'osai ko sarji" originated from - without it, I am 
> commanding the listener to support Lojban, which is an unseemly sort of 
> thing to command.  .e'o and other words can soften a command to 
> something weaker than a command, but unmarked, it is a command for real.
>
> Wanting to emphasize the command nature, perhaps for 
> immediacy/intensity, I might mark the ko itself with cai (which 
> conveniently, not by design, happens to be similar in sound to "ca" for 
> "now"), but none of the indicators.
>
> .e'unai and .e'anai are often attitudinals one would attach to a 
> negative command (possibly on the ko, or possibly on the selbri), and 
> marking them with cai, would add emphasis to the negative (and 
> presumably there is a na in the sentence as well).
>
> If we needed something other than ko to mark a command, it would have to 
> be a discursive, rather than an attitudinal.  Same grammar, but 
> discursives are CVV rather than VV.  But any such marker seems like it 
> would be redundant to me.
>
> lojbab
> -- 
> Bob LeChevalier    loj...@lojban.org    www.lojban.org
> President and Founder, The Logical Language Group, Inc.

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