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Re: [lojban] cmevla as a class of brivla





On Monday, June 10, 2013 10:23:43 PM UTC+4, la arxokuna wrote:


On Monday, June 10, 2013 5:17:15 PM UTC+4, clifford wrote:
Well, speaking of serendipity!  I made a careless error, but it turns out to provide your answer.  I said I was dropping {la} with cmevla, but I meant cmene.  Still, if I stick to what I *said*, the problem (the one you mention at least) is solved.  {mi klama paris berlin} gives destination and origin, {mi klama la paris berlin} gives only a strange destination.

i can't see internal consistency in this proposal.

Really sorry. I meant to say "I can see inconsistency".

Anyway, can you elaborate  your proposal a bit more? How would it look like in the formal grammar?


How would you say {mi viska la .maikl. .djakson.} ? With or without {la}?

Can {la} be dropped only for one-cmevla names?


  Of course,  if I want to add that I took the TGV  or came to that strange destination from Rome, I might get new problems.  Back to the drawing board!


From: selpa'i <sel...@gmx.de>
To: loj...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 5:26 AM
Subject: Re: [lojban] cmevla as a class of brivla

la .pycyn. cu cusku di'e
> I do think this talk about a documented baseline has about worn out its
> usefulness.

Yes! Finally someone says this openly.

> It started when it became clear that the grammar in CLL did
> not correspond to what anybody was doing in Lojban.  But it was
> predicated on somebody actually doing the documentation and in the
> intervening two decades, no one has even made a pass at that.  So, why
> not go back to CLL.  Say that *is* the baseline and largely wrong and
> then start to build the new normal, incorporating suggestions as they
> come along and get accepted, rather than waiting for the Baseline (who
> is do a week after the Messiah and two after Elijah).

I would love that.

> That ids, in
> fact, the way people have been behaving for most of Lojban's history but
> there have been no controls on them because "it is not yet the time to
> make changes".  Too bad, the changes just get made, even if they are
> dumb.  Better to hash them out and issue decrees now then try to patch
> things up later (much later, since after the baseline).

That's kind of what I keep saying.

> So, for example, I use dotside prime. (and am thinking about dropping
> {la} with cmevla).

Hehe :P. You would still need to show how you would distinguish between {mi klama .paris. .berlin.} "I go to Paris from Berlin" and {mi klama .paris.berlin.} "I go to Paris-Berlin" (whatever that is). How do you distinguish between cmevla strings that form a single sumti together and cmevla strings that don't? You cannot simply remove the middle dot there, because *{.parisberlin.} has an illegal consonant pair. I assume you would use a JOI to glue them and have them be seperate otherwise?

mu'o mi'e la selpa'i

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