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Re: [lojban] cmevla as a class of brivla




On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 2:07 PM, John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com> wrote:

In Logic, names need to be distinct from descriptions, predicates, variables, connectives, and so on. Does this carry over to Lojban?

I assume the question is rhetorical, but of course, those functions are distinct in Lojban. Those are different functions that a word may have. The same word can have different functions depending on its context.
 
cmevla, which play a part in names, are structurally distinct from all other words in Lojban, so could, presumably, play the role of names.  They currently play a part in no other Lojban constructions than names. 

Not quite true. "djan zei pol", for example, is a predicate in which cmevla play a constitutive part. Lojban predicates are, for the most part, not single words. And the same can be said of Lojban names.
 
To be used as names, cmevla must be preceded by {la}, etc., of LE, the class of descriptors,

("la" is in selmaho LA, not currently a member of LE, although the merge of BRIVLA and CMEVLA would also merge LE and LA.)
 
[...]
On the other hand, if {la}+ a particular sumti-tail, is distinct from {la}+ another sumti-tail created by expanding the original in the usual way for missing sumti, then {la} is not a descriptor, but rather a meta device for turning any string of sounds into a name.  But then the restriction to sumti-tails seems pointless; why not {broda ko'a}(dot conventions in place of course)? Why not a whole sentence rather than just a sumti-tail (I assume a whole sentence can't be a degenerate case of a sumti-tail)?  Why not {la la} and {la ui}?  Since any string ending in a consonant can become a name, why not any string at all? 

Because it would be ambiguous. Would "mi klama la broda ko'a" mean "I go to the one named "broda ko'a", or "I go to the one named "broda", from ko'a?

 
As one way out of this, note that some names do not require {la}: {mi}, {do}, and a few more. 

I'm not sure what you are looking for a way out of, at this point.
 
They are distinguished out by enumeration.  cmevla are distinguished by structure.  Maybe they should join the list of {la}-less names.  Then {la} snaps back to apply to sumti-tails only and, while slightly odd, is a mere descriptor again, without all the resulting problems of unwelcome {la} phrases.
I think that covers the muck.

If I understand what you are proposing, you would want:

   mi klama paris rom

to mean "I go to Paris from Rome", and you would disallow compound names, such as is currently "la paris rom". I don't really see the point though.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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