Betsemes wrote:
On Mon, May 27, 2013 at 11:21 AM, selpa'i <seladwa@gmx.de> wrote:For me, the Merge is actually even more important than the GIJA reform.This is a topic that has frustrated me to no end since the beginning. By the time of the quoted thread where Robin said the system was not broken, I had no argument to counter, yet the topic has haunted me every single time I come back to Lojban.It'd be nice to hear what others think, but my hopes aren't too high, although realistically I feel it's inevitable in the long run. Off the top of my head, I know of around 5 people who are in favor (excluding xorxes), and the current authorities all seem opposed.I've been recently thinking a lot on a fictional lojban-talking world, and the topic of naming is one I had to deal with. I concluded the system is broken for those countries where two surnames are used to name an individual. Let me take some cmevla and brivla used as names within this list. betsemes solvor camgusmis xorxes
These are cmene
arxokuna selpa'i gleki tsani
These are brivla used as "nicknames". All sorts of words are used as nicknames in English, but they are not really "names". Presumably no one would be given a nickname as their legal name, if Lojban were ever adopted as a legal language.
Let's say "la betsemes solvor" wants to marry "la xorxes camgusmis". A child may be called "la rod solvor camgusmis", name: rod, first surname: solvor, second surname: camgusmis. That naming system is what is being used in my country.
The naming system to be used in a hypothetical Lojban-speaking society cannot be determined. No doubt it would abide by the language conventions of the tie.
Let's say "la gleki arxokuna" marries "la selpa'i tsani".
But in a Lojban society, those would not be their legal names, because they are not cmene. At the very least, they would be Lojbanized into cmene to make "real" names.
Oops. What should we do with them? Do we forbid them to marry because the child's name violates the language naming rules? They should be allowed to marry and name their child "la rod solvor tsani" or "la broda solvor tsani" if they wish. If the language does not support this naming system, is not the fault of the country's naming system. It means the language naming system is broken.
No. It means that the people who are doing the naming don't want to follow the rules of the language.
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