Re: [lojban] Lexicon Valley: Will Learning a "Logical" Language Make You Think More Logically?

[Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>]

On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 8:56 AM, Pierre Abbat <phma@bezitopo.org> wrote:

On Wednesday, December 11, 2013 14:43:41 John E. Clifford wrote:
> Well, it has the history somewhat skewed and almost all the usual errors
> about the Whorf Hypothesis, but a decent sketch of what most people and
> Wikipedia think this is all about.  And no, logical languages don't make ou
> more logical nor does the hypothesis nor JCB in his saner moments claim
> they would.

I've read of an actual test of the hypothesis - not a set-up experiment, but
an observation of two existing groups of people. There is a noticeable
difference in the kinds of industrial accidents that Swedish-speaking Finns and
Finnish-speaking Finns get into; it was traced to the different ways the two
languages encode spatiotemporal ideas. Finns who learned one language at home
are required to learn the other in school (except in Åland), so it's not just
knowing the language that makes the difference, but learning it first.

Lojban has at least ten ways of saying "and"

I wonder what would users of zasni gerna say? the latter mostly demolished the difference between A, JA, GUhA, GIhA, ZIhE.

, several ways of saying "if"

Again we can argue that simple {zo'u} functioning as "if" can be as vague as English "if".

i fau lo nu do cpedu kei mi klama

i ganai do cpedu gi mi klama

i lo nu do cpedu zo'u mi klama

, a
large set of specific prepositions

that are just some gismu being compressed (which is clearly shown in the lack of BAI for fi'o kansa [and that's why I proposed {ka'ai=fi'o kansa}]).

, both spatial and temporal tenses

They say Quechua also perceived the world in spatio-temporal dualism.

, and full
clusivity.

mi'a vs. mi'o? I dont know why this scheme was chosen when English "we" is absolutely logical:

we = (personal) The speakers/writers, or the speaker/writer and at least one other person.

[and that's why I proposed {mi'ai} for it]

On the other hand, it lacks grammatical number and gender.

But this is absolutely not unique. You can test this without Lojban. No he/she in Turkish, no number and tense in Chinese.

And on the other side you don't have Japanese politeness markers in Lojban.

I can translate Russian "вы" as {do .io} but not sure about "ты".

 

What
effect would learning Lojban as one's first language have on the mind?

But ba'a we'll see that soon. In any case many questions can be answered without Lojban. The fact that some of them are to be answered {na'i} is another story.

 

Pierre
--
li fi'u vu'u fi'u fi'u du li pa

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