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Re: [lojban] [oz] Abstractors



la .asiz. cusku di'e
Let me start with a very specific issue:

I'm sorry you had to write such a long post for what is going to be a relatively simple answer.

The abstractors used in kakne2
appear to be inconsistent. For reference, some examples:

(1) {la māxpre cu cčrtu te cānge gi'e kākne lo ka kųrji lo bārda te crčpu}
(2) {na kākne lo nu fa'a ni'a klāma}
(3) {mi na kākne lo nu gānse}
(4) {cy kākne lo ka vėska du'i lo nu co'e ca lo dōnri}
(5) {da poi ma'a kākne lo nu sėpna bu'u ke'a ze'a lo nėcte}
(6) {lo nānmu cu kākne lo nu mųvgau sy zu'e ny po'o}
(7) {mi kākne lo ka ru'u mųvdu tai lo xagdų'i be lo me lo pųrci moi}
(8) {la tėnci mųdypre na kākne lo ka kārgau lo ri mōklu}
(9) {my di'a kākne lo ka tāvla}

(grep counted 30 occurrences of {kākne lo ka} and 10 of {kākne lo nu})

I strongly believe that kakne2 should be a ka-abstraction.

Me too, although I don't have very strong feelings about it. I just think it makes more sense.

The story is this: When I started translating Oz, I was still using {nu} with predicates like {troci}, but some way in I finally made the switch to {ka}. I thought I had replaced most {kakne lo nu} by now, but apparently there still are a few left.

It is good that you bring this up, however, because I want people to know that the intended form is indeed the {kakne lo ka} one, and anything else in kakne2 is a left-over from before and should be considered a typo.

I will list a few other predicates that I now thing should not use {nu}, but which I used to use with {nu} (please feel free to add cases where these are used with {nu} to the list of errata spreadsheet):
kakne, troci, snada, cpedu, minde, zukte, nitcu, bilga, certu, ...

(keep in mind, though, that I do make intentional use of polymorphism sometimes)

By the way, there are other uses of {kākne} that are more subtly related
to the issue. E.g.,

(10) {gāsnu ro lo se kākne be se va'u do}

Yes. Same thing as before, though this sort of case is why I kept on using {nu} with the likes of {kakne} and {troci}. I thought it was too useful to be able to say {lo se troci cu rinka lo nu morsi}. I finally got persuaded to change my mind, though, so this is no longer a sentence I would defend as being entirely correct.

I would adjust that to

(11) {ckāji ro lo se kākne be se va'u do}.

I will change it to {gasnu ro lo jai se kakne be se va'u do}.

mi'e la selpa'i mu'o

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