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Re: [lojban] [oz] {ny poi cy ke'a falcru}



  So, about the original question, I do think that you can use a basysu'i that encompasses an entire group or mass and then further specified downward by quantifiers or relative clauses/phrases to include only part of it.

  As for "ti poi toldi" vs "ti noi toldi" I see what you are asserting, but I can't hear "ti poi toldi" as  anything other than "The subset of these that are butterflies...." and "ti noi toldi" as "this/these, which is/are a butterfly/butterflies...." 

                         -gejyspa


On Sat, Feb 8, 2014 at 1:07 PM, Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com> wrote:



On Sat, Feb 8, 2014 at 2:09 PM, Felipe Gonçalves Assis <felipeg.assis@gmail.com> wrote:

When I say {ti poi toldi}, I am making it clear what I am pointing to, while when I say {ti noi toldi}, I expect you to understand what I am pointing to, and I am giving the information that it is a butterfly. In the latter case, I might be presuming, for example, that you don't know that the colourful thing I am pointing at is in fact a butterfly. In the former, the information in the relative clause has a clear purpose: it is there to clarify the reference.

Good point. That's why I've always been uneasy with "ti poi toldi" as opposed to "lo vi toldi".

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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