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Re: [lojban] Individuals and xorlo



On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 8:36 PM, guskant <gusni.kantu@gmail.com> wrote:

It is because the following proposition is given as an axiom in the universe of discourse (UD1) on the current topic.
P1: 
ro'oi da poi ke'a me lo sidbo ku'o su'oi de zo'u de me da ijenai da me de

 From P1 I get "no da me lo sidbo".
 
In this universe of discourse, the following proposition is a theorem.
P2:
naku ro'oi da poi ke'a me lo sidbo zo'u lo sidbo cu me da

As long as talking about UD1, we are forced to think that P2, that is, there is no individual {lo sidbo}, because it is a proved theorem.


I don't see how P2 follows from P1.

Also, in P2, "lo sidbo" could not refer to a single individual, but it could refer to two individuals. Suppose it refers to two individual ideas I had this morning. Then P2 is true: It is not the case that for every X among those two ideas, those two ideas are among X" (in particular for each one of the ideas, the two ideas are not among it. You must have meant something else.


Because neither P1 nor P3 is tautology, we are not forced to think that one of them is always true for all the universes of discourse. We have freedom to choose non-logical axioms and a universe of discourse according to context.


Even granting that, I think that what we're missing is some motivation for such a seemingly strange universe of discourse. Are there any predicates in natlangs that tend to behave that way? My prediction is that if there was some predicate broda that tended to satisfy P1, it would quickly tend to be replaced by another brode such that ro'oi da poi proda ku'o su'o de poi brode zo'u de gunma da, and then "lo brode", which would have individual referents, would be used instead of "lo broda".

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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