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Re: [lojban] Speaker specificity: {.i da'i na vajni}

selpa'i, On 29/09/2014 13:27:

la .and. cu cusku di'e
I think the whole notion of veridicality and non-veridicality is overstated.


Yes, it is overstated in CLL, early teaching materials, and Lojbab-level understanding of gadri, but it is nevertheless not insignificant.


For the definite description nature of {le}, which is its main
purpose, non-veridicality is irrelevant, and it would more likely to
be defined in terms of quantifiers in a formal logic.


On the contrary, the description, with its identificatory function, is nonveridical; to put it another way, it has independent illocutionary force of an identification, not an assertion; it is not part of the propositional content of the main sentential illocution.


Instead of {lo broda voi brode} you can always say {lo broda noi/poi
mi skicu ke'a fo lo ka brode} and {noi simlu lo ka brode}.


Almost. But you need to sort out the illocutionarity. Is there a UI for 'hereby'? What'd be good would be a ko-like version of mi, meaning "I hereby", such that the bridi it is a sumti of expresses an independent illocution: {lo broda noi/poi mi HEREBY skicu ke'a fo lo ka brode}


As this is something that is relatively rarely needed, it doesn't
matter that it doesn't have a shortcut cmavo.


It comes prebaked into le- gadri, but for any other identificatory phrase it's needed. E.g. for something like "the day of the week that we got married on", referring to Tuesday (without claiming we got married on Tuesday), "lo day-of-the-week identificatory-poi we got married on ke'a" -- much as Pierre's orangutan example.

Without it, you lose a bit of needed functionality, but you don't wreck the (putative) logical foundations of the language.

--And.

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