On 28 Sep 2014 01:43, "Jorge Llambías" <jjllambias@gmail.com> wrote:
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> On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 7:43 PM, And Rosta <and.rosta@gmail.com> wrote:
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>> On 27 Sep 2014 20:28, "Jorge Llambías" <jjllambias@gmail.com> wrote:
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>> > Is that just adding non-veridicality to "lo", or something else to do with specificity?
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>> The specificity comes from the {co'e}.
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> Even if "co'e" is some specific predicate that the speaker has in mind, I don't think "lo co'e" has to have specific referents, since any predicate could have non specific referents.
I don't know what having "nonspecific referents" is. If a specific referent is one underdetermined by the description, is a nonspecific one one that is fully determined by the description, e.g. a generic?
> Maybe "co'e" is meant to stand for the predicate "x1 is/are certain x2".
"x1 is a certain thing" would do as a gloss.
>> I had misremembered {voi}. I mean rather that {le broda} is {lo co'e voi'i ke'a broda}, where {voi'i} is nonveridical {noi} (I haven't found an existing experimental cmavo for that in jbovlaste, but I may have searched with insufficient diligence). {Voi} itself seems utterly useless: has it ever been used correctly and meaningfully?
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> I don't think it has seen much use at all. I'm sure the irci boys will soon find a better use for it since they seem to be re-purposing all those wasted one syllable cmavo like "tau", "lau" and such.
I would go for du'u, ke'a, ce'u, zo'u, zo'e, co'e, poi'i (which I'm amazed to see lives), su'o(i), mu'ei to be monosyllabic. Do the irci boys have a list of ideas?
>> The nonveridicality is a natural consequence of the identificatory function of the relative clause.
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>> In other words, {le} is specificity (co'e) plus identificatory clause (voi'i).
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> I think I would rather have a predicate that meant "certain" instead of a gadri for specificity. Or at least we could define "le" in terms of that predicate.
{le} might or might not be a worthwhile abbreviation for {lo co'e voi'i}, but that's what it does seem to be an abbreviation of, so is not mysterious as to its meaning. I don't know about lei or le'i or le'e -- all those lV(')V gadri should, as Nick Nicholas would say, die in the arse.
--And.
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