la .and. cu cusku di'e
It is a necessary part of definite descriptions, since by definition
definite descriptions comprise a referent and an illocutionarily
identificatory description of it. IOW, {lo co'e voi'i ke'a broda} is
simply an explication in Lojban of what a definite description is. Now,
it's also the case that we have often taken le- to mean 'certain', and
for that, {lo co'e noi ke'a broda} seems the appropriate Lojban
explication. My reason for taking current le to be the voi'i version is
that all the official documents insist it is nonveridical.
The logical structure of "the cats are still in my garden" must include
identificatory illocutionary operators, which is bothering with
nonveridicality.
> [...]
lo jeftydei poi ca ke'a mi'o spesimbi'o the weekday on which we got married What problems do you see with this?Illocutionarily different from the original; it makes {ca ke'a mi'o spesimbi'o} part of what is asserted (or part of the propositional content of whatever the sentential illocution is).
Okay, I understand now the point you are making. This is what I was hinting at when I said it depends on what one takes {le} to mean. You can think of it the way you did, or in terms of quantifiers. I was doing the latter, but I understand that you, and I think PC, think it has to be the former.
That position treats {le} like {la}. It is nothing more than a name, a label, and that's why the relative clause needs to have a different illocution, because it is used to define the label in the current context (and that's why it doesn't have to satisfy the predicate it is "named" after).
So we were simply talking about different things.As I'm not a {le}-user myself, I don't think I'm going to try to put my definition on it. Let the {le}-users define what it means.
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