On 29 Jan 2015 15:57, "Gleki Arxokuna" <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> 2015-01-29 18:20 GMT+03:00 And Rosta <and.rosta@gmail.com>:
>>
>>
>> On 29 Jan 2015 10:48, "Gleki Arxokuna" <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > 2015-01-29 13:25 GMT+03:00 And Rosta <and.rosta@gmail.com>:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 7:58 AM, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> 2015-01-29 10:35 GMT+03:00 And Rosta <and.rosta@gmail.com>:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On 29 Jan 2015 06:38, "Gleki Arxokuna" <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > 2015-01-28 23:40 GMT+03:00 'John E Clifford' via lojban <lojban@googlegroups.com>:
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >> There are clearly two valid parses for the English.
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > Why are you saying that the English sentence has two parses?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Because it does have two (in fact, three) parses. In one, "flying" is an adverbial adjunct (of "saw") with controlled subject; in a second, it is "object complement" (predicate in a small-clausal complement of "saw"); in a third, it is adjunct of "plane".
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Of course, this can be a rival explanation but are those different parses due to ambiguity of the syntactic tree?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Yes.
>> >
>> >
>> > Where this ambiguity arises?
>>
>> I don't know if I understand your question.
>>
>> > Isn't it easier to state that "-ing" attaches to uncertain heads just like {calonu zo'e} does in Lojban ?
>>
>> No. The three syntactic structures I describe are independently warranted; they're not invented just to account for this sentence's ambiguity. Sometimes syntactically different sentences just happen to have the same phonology; that's the very definition of ambiguity.
>
> You have a sentence.
> You interpret it.
> After this interpretation you call it ambiguous.No, not at all. You have a sentence, which may be ambiguous, which means that it belongs to a group of sentences with the same phonology and different logicosyntax. Then you disambiguate (select a sentence). Then you interpret it.
>
> But this is how Lojban sentence works as well.
> {ca lo nu se xi vei mo'e zo'e} after the interpretation leads us to the conclusion that:
> {mo'e zo'e} can take the value 1 or 2.
>
> They are not invented just to account for this sentence's ambiguity.As far as I can see, the Lojban is unambiguous, with just a single logicosyntactic form.
> And I disagree that the English sentence has any ambiguity by itself. After you interpret it - then yes.
You seem to conflate disambiguation, whereby you select a particular sentence and logicosyntactic form, with interpretation, whereby you progressively enrich the encoded meaning until you arrive at the proposition you conclude the speaker intends to communicate. If you are doing that intentionally, it may not be possible for the rest of us to dissuade you, but at least you might understand why we think you are mistaken.
--And.
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