Re: [lojban] Re: Possible polysemy clashes for "regular affixes" in lujvo?

Yes, those are filjvo that I was referring to.

But as I said shifting all places instead of just shifting one or two may pose problems.

bai, gau and mau/me'a can be used as prepositions which eliminates the need in adding zillions of new words and the need in additionally memorizing short rafsi.

Instead of bra- you may use {ve'u}.

In fact just recently I pointed out this technical problem of why people are forced to invent lujvo: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/lojban/O1Bn7SVIy4k

Although, we should ignore them. E.g. tce- could be used as a prefix that doesn't shift places. This would eliminate such questions as {mi gleki mutce - i do gleki mutce ma}.

If more elements are needed in future they can be invented when needed.

E.g. I invented {zu'ai} to say {mi ce do zu'ai tavla} = {mi jo'u do simxu lo ka ce'u ce'u tavla} (ignoring focus)

Such solutions as opposed to lujvo solutions are more powerful since they allow inserting any needed words, e.g. attitudinals in between. lujvo don't allow any infixes.

2015-05-18 12:42 GMT+03:00 Remo Dentato <rdentato@gmail.com>:

Not sure if this is what gleki was referring to:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Mp2arQqeeFob9bx502wLF5pokM6W9Jk-P_O5ewkgWOs/edit?usp=sharing

I don't think we moved too far with this list having been reviewed but I would really love for it to happen.

On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 1:53 PM, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:

2015-05-14 14:21 GMT+03:00 Pierre Abbat <phma@bezitopo.org>:
On Wednesday, May 13, 2015 19:15:19 Gleki Arxokuna wrote:
> In both examples case changes only for the first two places. "from" and
> "to" prepositions stay the same.
> However, for -gau and -bi'o lujvo one has to mentally shift the place
> structure. So instead of {mi djuno fi do} you get {ra jungau mi fo do}.
> This may be harder to use since you have to learn two place structure
> whereas in major world languages almost one.

Lojban doesn't have accusative or ergative morphosyntactic alignment.

It has a preposition that parallels ergative a lot.

It has
an indefinitely long series of numbered places.

We are talking about combining tags with FA, not about FA alone.

English has four numbered
places (the fourth is quite rarely used) and can move 2 to 1 or 3 to 1 (moving
1 to a place tagged by "by"), but doesn't shift them the way Lojban does.

Children have no problem learning ergative languages. I see no reason why
children can't learn place-shift languages. It's adults that have problems
learning a different kind of language than they're used to.

As I explained above the problem is not in place shift structure but in the number of place structures to learn.
English reuses the same place structure when converting verbs to transitive like in the example of "to move".
Lojban also reuses the place structure in {jai gau} mode.

Being able to remember infinite number of lujvo with arbitrary place structures (lujvo mode) has to be tested. Although I won't.

Pierre
--
When a barnacle settles down, its brain disintegrates.
Já não percebe nada, já não percebe nada.

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