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Re: [lojban] elidable terminators and ambiguity



I'm afraid that the posted replies haven't shed a lot of light on this subject for me.
As I have read more elsewhere I've since come to the conclusion that
the "ambiguity" referred to in CLL which determines whether a terminator may be elided
refers to the ambiguity in the parsing process at the location of the missing terminator,
where the parser has only one token of lookahead to make a determination (as in YACC).
An ambiguity that requires more lookahead than that to resolve is considered still ambiguous,
and it disallows eliding the terminator in question.
This covers the mlatu sisku case anyway.

Since PEG grammars and other non-YACC parsers are widely used,
and a lot of shoe-horning has to be done to make lojban go through YACC,
I'm a little doubtful whether a grammatical rule that depends on YACC and LALR1 processing is realistic and well-chosen.

mihe la bremenli pohu laho gy Vincent Broman gy


On Thursday, September 1, 2016 at 1:00:41 PM UTC-7, uakci wrote:

Nah, it doesn't work that way. First, «mi noi le mlatu sisku cu sipna» parses successfully. It means 'Me, whom the cat sleeps' (whatever the idea of a sleeped thing is). Second, Lojban doesn't have this notion of 'if this happens, then that doesn't parse'. If your «ku» hasn't been closed, the «le» will eat more than you want it to, even at the occasional costs of not parsing.

~ uakci


On Sep 1, 2016 8:15 PM, <vpbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
The {cu} is not elidable, it is optional, but leaving it in tends to make a lot of other things elidable.

The reason that {ku} should be elidable (based on the rule) is that there is unambiguously only one place that the required {ku} could occupy.
The phrase {mlatu sisku} can not be a tanru because {noi},{kuho} must enclose a bridi, and {le mlatu sisku ku keha vau} is not a bridi.
That clause no verb.

On Friday, August 26, 2016 at 4:02:51 PM UTC-7, Andrew wrote:
The reason you can't leave out {ku} in {le mlatu ku sisku} is because it is already omitting {cu}. The longest form of this phrase would be {le mlatu ku cu sisku}. Most people pretty much always omit either {ku} or {cu}, but you need at least one between the x1 and the selbri.

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