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Re: [bpfk] official cmavo form




On Sat, Dec 20, 2014 at 1:11 PM, John Cowan <cowan@mercury.ccil.org> wrote:
Jorge Llambías scripsit:

> Well, it depends on how much we're willing to reform. My assumption is that
> Lojban needs to distinguish between the four forms "le'i", "le .i", "le ii"
> and "lei". We have six candidate pronunciations: /lehi/, /le?i/, /le?ji/,
> /leji/, /lei/, /lej/.

There is also "lei .i".

And worse "lei ii".  

> Obviously /lehi/ -> "le'i", /le?i/ -> "le .i" and /lej/ -> "lei".

Yes.

> That leaves three pronunciations from which to choose for "le ii", and for
> me the best choice is /leji/ because /le?ji/ is way too close to /le?i/,
> closer than /leji/ is to /lej/, due to syllable count.

I recognize the force of this, but becdause "lei .i" has to be "lej?i"

and "lei ii" has to be /lej?ji/ or /lej/-pause-/ji/, since we don't allow /lejji/. Yes, that's unfortunate.

I think "le .ii" has to be /le?ji/.  This is no worse than the similarity
of initial "ii" and "i", which (for example) is completely inaudible
to sinophones:  they write "pinyin" (in Latin script) but pronounce
it /pinin/.  In practice this means that /ji/ has to be pronounced with
an approximant.

It really sucks to have "ii" and "uu" at all.  They should be confined to
the attitudinals, and *never* used anywhere else.

To me allowing "iibroda" while rejecting "iibro da" doesn't make a lot of sense. It shouldn't be a matter of word class, we either allow the syllable "ii" or we don't. Also, if "ii" is an attitudinal, "ii'a" could be one as well.

If the words "ii" and "uu" are to be treated as complete anomalies, then the camxes morphology may need to be rethought. It might then make sense to allow syllables without onsets, treat ia, ie, io, iu as bisyllabic, and allow ae, ao, ea, eo, eu, oa, oe, ou as well. 

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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