[lojban-beginners] Re: trying poe poetry translation

[peter hering <pjhering@gmail.com>]

With your kind indulgence I have pasted together the suggestions you offered thus rendering the stanza.

pu zu so'i so'i nanca
ne'i lo gugde be re'o le xamsi
gy se xabju lo nixli noi la'a cu'i
do morji fi ny no'u la .anabeLIS.
.i ji'a ny jmive pensi lo po'o si'o
ny prami gi'e se prami vau mi

I appreciate it and jbofi'e digests it without complaint, but what would Poe think?  Esperanto has over the years produced its own literature.  Does lojban have its great authors and poets?

Thank you kindly for your effort.

My response the the puzzle text you posed:
.io .i'o .ui .i'e do cilre zo'e gi'e sarji vau la .lojban.
"With respect, appreciation, delight and approval you learn and support lojban."
To the best of my beginner's understanding the denizens of selma'o UI may be added to text more or less freely and are not bound by the otherwise strict grammar.  As for interpretation this seems a little ambiguous (and therefore probably not the case).  I've lumped them all into one nebulous glob of attitudinal meaning.


Brett Williams wrote:

On 8/4/08, peter hering <pjhering@gmail.com> wrote:

1st stanza of Annabel Lee by Edgar Allan Poe:

It was many and many a year ago,
  In a kingdom by the sea,
That a maiden there lived whom you may know
  By the name of ANNABEL LEE;
And this maiden she lived with no other thought
  Than to love and be loved by me.

coi ninpre
hello beginner

do fanva za'a lo se nelci be mi pemci
You've translated, I see, a poem that I like.

.i do pu gasnu so'u ninpre se srera noi mi ba .ai dragau
You've made a few beginner errors, which I will try to make right.

.i ku'i ko na xanka .i do lo nu cilre cu snada .ia
But don't worry.  I believe you are succeeding at learning.
 

pu so'isai se nanca

First, "so'isai" is actually "so'i [ge'e] sai" == "many, which I feel something strongly about".  I'm not sure how to say "very many" as a number, that's an interesting question.  One idea that comes to mind is just "so'i so'i", does that work doi jbocevni?

Also, let's talk a tiny bit about tense tagging.  There are a few different categories of tense tag:

- tagging when an event happened relative to another event, using the tense word itself as a tag: "mi klama pu lo nu mi citka" -- I went, before I ate.  "do xagji ba lo nu do bajra" -- You're hungry, after you run.  (It was confusing to me at first that "pu" means before and "ba" means after; note that the normal tense usage can be understood as before now vs after now.)

- tagging how far one event is from another, using the tense intensity markers "zi" "za" "zu" (usually "za") as a tag: "mi klama ba za pa cacra" -- I will go after one hour.  "lo nanla cu citka pu za so'u mentu" -- The boy ate a few minutes ago.

- tagging how long an event lasts, using the tense duration markers "ze'i" "ze'a" "ze'u" (usually "ze'a") as a tag: "mi bajra ze'a ci cacra" -- I ran for three hours.  "mi se cfipu ze'a lo snidu" -- I was confused for a second.

So what we want here I think is the second case:

"pu zu so'i so'i nanca"
 

 

  ne'i lo jecta re'o le xamsi

You probably want "gugde" for kingdom there (or "se turni" or "se jecta").  Also, this is just two unconnected facts about the bridi: That it's in a kingdom, and by the sea.  To put the kingdom itself by the sea, you probably want a "be":

"ne'i lo gugde be re'o le xamsi"
 

jy se xabju lo nixli noi ka'e morji
  fa do ny me'e la .anabel ausai

Putting a "me'e" tag like that says (vaguely something like) that the remembering itself has a name.  I would say something like:

"jy se xabju lo nixli noi la'a cu'i
do morji fi ny no'u la .anabeLIS."

(J is inhabited by a girl, who maybe
you remember about, and who is Annabel Lee.)
 

.iji'a ti nixli jmive si'o pamei
  prami je se prami mi

"ti" is something you can point at, and a "si'o" abstraction happily forms a tanru, so what you've said there is that you're pointing at a girl-living kind of idea. :)

Here's how it occured to me to say it:

".i ji'a ny jmive pensi lo po'o si'o
ny prami gi'e se prami vau mi"

I thought for a second of translating it differently to take out that gi'e/vau trick, but I thought instead I'd explain it-- so congratulations, you are learning (maybe, if I succeed) the gi'e/vau trick!  "gi'e" allows you to put two "tails" onto a bridi, as so:  

"mi citka" (I eat.) +
"mi bajra" (I run.) =
"mi citka gi'e bajra" (I eat and run.)

"do ninpre" (You're a beginner.) +
"do sutcli" (You learn quickly.) =
"do ninpre gi'e sutcli" (You're a beginner and learn quickly.)  

"mi citka lo plise" (I eat an apple.) +
"mi bajra lo dargu" (I run on a road.) =
"mi citka lo plise gi'e bajra lo dargu" (I eat an apple and run on a road.)

So now maybe you're ready for the trick, which is that if you put a "vau" after the second tail, you can put something after and it's attached to *both* tails.  For instance:

"mi viska lo plise" (I see an apple.) +
"mi citka lo plise" (I eat an apple.) =
"mi viska gi'e citka vau lo plise" (I see and eat an apple.)

"lo prenu cu prami mi" (A person loves me.) +
"lo prenu cu se prami mi" (A person is loved by me.) =
"lo prenu cu prami gi'e se prami vau mi" (A person loves and is loved by me.)

The sumti after the "vau" go into the first available slots, even if they're different in the two tails, for instance:

"mi dunda lo plise do" (I give an apple to you.) +
"mi nelci do" (I like you.) =
"mi dunda lo plise gi'e nelci vau do" (I give you an apple and like you.)

(Putting "do" into the x2 of nelci and the x3 of dunda.)

"do klama zo'e la .boston." (You went from Boston.) +
"do xabju la .boston." (You live in Boston.) =
"do klama zo'e gi'e xabju vau la .boston." (You went from and live in Boston.)

(Putting "la .boston." into the x2 of xabju and the x3 of klama.)

So here's one puzzle sentence for you:

.io .i'o .ui .i'e do cilre zo'e gi'e sarji vau la .lojban.


ni'o 
new topic

ko ko kurji
take care of yourself and be taken care of by yourself (a traditional saying here in Lojbanistan)

.i mu'o mi'e .selkik. mi'e se ckiku
over, i'm selkik, i'm "The Lock"